BX23S - No-Start issues!

[carlbach]

This isn't my first post about this issue.

Spooky as it may be, my first BX23 had similar no-start issues every so often, for no apparent reason, the tractor wouldn't start. It happened a few times in all its years of service, and it was the same tune each time: turned the key, all pertinent dash lights came on, and then there was dead silence, no click, no grind, just silence (actually there's the faint click of the fuel pump). Checked the battery and all the obvious safeties and everything else by jiggling handles in and out of position, moving the HST pedal back and forth, looking for loose wires, cussing up a storm, and finding nothing. I'd get mad, give up, and come back later and jump back on only to have it fire right up. F*#@ing, magical, right? Ended up not fixing the issue on the first BX, simply because it happened so infrequently and the spell never lasted long. Just didn't bother, because I thought it was just a lazy safety switch, which was no biggie just a pain in the ass?

Fast forward a few years later and my new, improved BX23S has the very same issue. Unfortunately, jiggling handles in and out and cussing didn't make it go away this time. Now I am feeling 6 feet in a hole with this curse and the hole is slowly filling with water - Winter is here and I need my damned tractor!

That said here's a summary of what I've done so far:

1. Jiggled handles and cussed a lot, came back later, and still won't start. Worked before with the old BX so why not give it a try?
2. Removed battery connections, load tested the battery, cleaned the battery posts and connectors, greased, and put back together - all good.
3. Checked all fuses - all good.
4. Checked the battery voltage at the starter post - all good.
5. Checked the connectors and wires at the starter - all good.
6. Checked the connectors and wires and mechanical function of the engine stop solenoid - all good.
7. Greased and made sure the HST pedal was moving freely and not missing the neutral position - all good.
8. Replaced both seat safeties, didn't find a bad switch, but did it anyway -all good.
9. Replaced PTO shift lever switch, didn't need it, but did it anyway - all good.
10. Jacked up the tractor and removed the rear tire (heavy sob) to gain access to the HST neutral switch - not so good.

Couldn't replace the switch unfortunately because it is buried behind hydraulic lines, and shifter arms inside the wheel well. You can barely see the switch itself but could see enough to check to be sure the switch was there and the switch piston could fully move in both directions, also checked to see if there was an adjustment for the switch position. The neutral switch is not easy to get to except by the removal of 3 hydraulic hoses and a couple of shifter linkages.

I have to mention the tractor decided to crap out in the mud and not in the barn where it's warm and dry. Yeah, there's a possible winter storm coming Sat/Sun with lots of wind and rain/snow and it's going to get colder and muddier.

I am going to replace that damned switch yet, so back to it on Monday after the storms pass.

All help and input are welcome.

 

[PaulL]

Bypass the switch for long enough to get it back to the shed? Perhaps permanently bypass it if it's a big problem.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

bx23s wiring is...
main switch--->HST switch--->PTO switch--->starter relay
when start relay on, it supplies power to actual starter 'control' lug.
The only thing you haven't replace is the small 'starter relay'.

simple test...
With key 'on', tranny high-neu-low in neutral( for safety), you can jumper the small lug on the starter to the big +12 lug, engine should start.

 

[jaxs]

Lawyers force insurance companies to demand devices to idiot proof and mfgrs design them complex to assure owners depend on dealer to keep them running. I'm able to troubleshoot electrical but when figitbits fail I eliminate their function rather that buying replacements that fail again with time. My feeling is anyone that stands on pto while cranking tractor will figure out other ways to kill themselve if some device prevents them doing with pto. IMO you risk injury dinking with the tire in order to fix that switch. Ditto for futzing around with pedals and levers causing contact to happen unexpected.
Multimeters are more effective than cussing so i advise having someone show you how meter works. If a friend can't do it pay someone because the knowledge will repay you 100X over in the future.

 

[carlbach]

Bypass the switch for long enough to get it back to the shed? Perhaps permanently bypass it if it's a big problem.

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I don't know how to jump it out except at the switch. This might work if I can find 2 points in my electrical system to jump out.

 

[carlbach]

bx23s wiring is...
main switch--->HST switch--->PTO switch--->starter relay
when start relay on, it supplies power to actual starter 'control' lug.
The only thing you haven't replace is the small 'starter relay'.

simple test...
With key 'on', tranny high-neu-low in neutral( for safety), you can jumper the small lug on the starter to the big +12 lug, engine should start.

Thanks for the response. Great idea, to jump the starter, that sounds like a good way to go. I will try it today.

 

[carlbach]

Lawyers force insurance companies to demand devices to idiot proof and mfgrs design them complex to assure owners depend on dealer to keep them running. I'm able to troubleshoot electrical but when figitbits fail I eliminate their function rather that buying replacements that fail again with time. My feeling is anyone that stands on pto while cranking tractor will figure out other ways to kill themselve if some device prevents them doing with pto. IMO you risk injury dinking with the tire in order to fix that switch. Ditto for futzing around with pedals and levers causing contact to happen unexpected.
Multimeters are more effective than cussing so i advise having someone show you how meter works. If a friend can't do it pay someone because the knowledge will repay you 100X over in the future.

Thanks for responding. The cussing is a necessary evil, a funny comment about those who will find other ways to kill themselves. I do have and use meters, just can't get to the switch. Don't know of any other way to jump the safeties out, but I will keep at it. Midcompact tractors have compacted the working room down to impossible without dismantling the tractor.

 

[PaulL]

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I don't know how to jump it out except at the switch. This might work if I can find 2 points in my electrical system to jump out.

Do you have a wiring diagram?

I'd assume that the safety switches are all connected in series, and then run onto the back of the ignition switch. The ignition switch will then probably trigger a relay on the starter. So in theory you can run a wire from a safety switch that you can get to directly to the back of the ignition, and that'd bypass the one you can't get to. Or just put a permanent live on the back of the ignition.

It wasn't totally clear to me from your post - did you determine the HST pedal switch was definitely the problem, or just couldn't get to it to find out?

 

[carlbach]

Thanks for responding. The cussing is a necessary evil, a funny comment about those who will find other ways to kill themselves. I do have and use meters, just can't get to the switch. Don't know of any other way to jump the safeties out, but I will keep at it. Midcompact tractors have compacted the working room down to impossible without dismantling the tractor.

I finally tore myself away from Red Zone long enough to do something that was suggested and read the wiring schematic. I did exactly that and it's not that big of a deal. Yesterday got distracted with getting to that damned switch and figuring out how to tear the tractor down to get to a switch, but that's the way things roll with subcompact tractors.

Do you have a wiring diagram?

I'd assume that the safety switches are all connected in series, and then run onto the back of the ignition switch. The ignition switch will then probably trigger a relay on the starter. So in theory you can run a wire from a safety switch that you can get to directly to the back of the ignition, and that'd bypass the one you can't get to. Or just put a permanent live on the back of the ignition.

It wasn't totally clear to me from your post - did you determine the HST pedal switch was definitely the problem, or just couldn't get to it to find out?

Took your suggestion broke out my WSM and traced the the circuit. Not that complicated

Do you have a wiring diagram?

I'd assume that the safety switches are all connected in series, and then run onto the back of the ignition switch. The ignition switch will then probably trigger a relay on the starter. So in theory you can run a wire from a safety switch that you can get to directly to the back of the ignition, and that'd bypass the one you can't get to. Or just put a permanent live on the back of the ignition.

It wasn't totally clear to me from your post - did you determine the HST pedal switch was definitely the problem, or just couldn't get to it to find out?

Didn't get to test the HST switch because of where it was mounted.

I do have the MSW with the wiring diagram, and you are right about the flow of current and the position of the safeties in the circuit.

Originally, I was kind of more tweaked about getting to the HST safety switch and should know better with subcompact tractors.

Thanks for your help, I'll be out there tomorrow and back at it.