B6000 backhoe hydraulics

[284 International]

This post would fit well in several categories, so forgive me.

I just picked up an old Brantly backhoe that want to put onto my B6000. The tractor currently has a loader with the Kubota auxiliary pump to power that end. I don't plan on making the backhoe a quick detach or on having easy swapping to a functional 3 point hitch.

The backhoe, from what I have found, is specified for 1800-2000 psi operating pressure, markedly higher than the 1200 psi I find for the regular hydraulic pump. The loader valve is set to relieve at 800 or so psi.

What is the best way to source hydraulic power? I'm willing to put a third pump on, of course, but would rather avoid that if I can. Is the output of the regular pump higher than the relief, that is, closer to 1800 psi? I haven't found any information on similar sized domestic backhoes
as far as their volume requirements.

My loader is slower than I would like, so I am mulling over the idea of putting a single, larger pump that would feed both the loader and the backhoe.

How did the factory B619 get power?

What have others done in similar situations? Thanks.

 

[MagKarl]

My Kubota/Woods backhoe is powered by a PTO pump. It works very well in my opinion and keeps everything separate and clean for easy swapping between attachments.

 

[Lil Foot]

My B7100 has a B219 FEL powered by a pump driven off the crank, the 3 point lift by the internal pump, and my B670 backhoe powered by a PTO driven pump. Works great!

 

[284 International]

Do you know the GPM rating on the auxiliary or PTO pump, by any chance? Thanks.

 

[Lil Foot]

Mine (PTO PUMP) is a Webster 155YC021-LF-D80S, !.55 cu. inch displacement, up to 2000 psi continuous duty, 3/4" shaft with keyway.

 

[284 International]

I'm guessing that's about 7 GPM or so at 540 RPM then? That was kind of what I figured to shoot for. The Harbor Freight towable backhoe claims to have a 2.7 GPM pump, and is about the same size. I think that would risk being too slow, and I can always throttle down to reduce output volume. 7 GPM at 2000 PSI would max out the little B6000 for power, so that actually seems well matched, and should give a comfortable working range.

How well does your little hoe work? What size bucket do you have?

 

[MagKarl]

I have a manual for Woods 650/750, which is the closest I can find since I don't have a Kubota manual for mine. Pump is spec'd at 2.1 cubic inch, 2000psi. 2.1 cubic inches per rev at 540 equals 1134 cubic inches per minute. 231 cubic inches per gallon, so my pump is pushing 4.9gpm at 540.

Lil Foot's 1.55 ci pump would be putting out about 3.6gpm.

Mine is plenty fast at 2000rpm. I never dig at true 540, way too fast.

It's all going to depend on the size of your cylinders, but I'd say 7gpm is a lot for a backhoe that's reasonably well matched to a B6000. How big is this backhoe? Let's see some pics.

 

[Lil Foot]

How well does your little hoe work? What size bucket do you have?

The bucket is 10" wide, and I also have a 14" that I haven't used yet. I haven't dug in any normal (IE soft) soil yet, but it does surprisingly well in the hard stuff, if I don't take too large a bite. (plus I'm still pretty green with it)

 

[284 International]

Where and how does yours attach to the tractor? Would you be able to take some pictures?

 

[Lil Foot]

First pic shows one of a pair of black plates that are bolted to the rear differential. They are notched to accept the 1" round crossbar that is welded between the backhoe sub frame rails.
Second pic shows the front end of the backhoe sub frame rails bolted (with 2 bolts) to a connector, which is then bolted to the FEL sub frame. (1 vertical bolt)
Thats it..... frankly I was amazed that these are the only attachment points for the backhoe.
Third pic is a little harder to interpret, but shows the PTO pump (black) attached to a bracket with two vertical "ears". (orange) These ears register in the PTO guard (Kubota blue/gray) and the trailer hitch (orange) to keep it from spinning. The half red, half yellow item in the middle is the adapter coupling between the PTO shaft & pump shaft.

 

[MagKarl]

Mine is similarly mounted. My rear diff mounted bracket is one welded assembly I copied from the Woods manual, basically a notched plate on each side like Lil Foot, but the two notches are 2" tall, and a piece of 2x3" x 1/4" wall box tubing with the rear facing sie removed is welded in the notch to accept the 1.5" dia round bar of my subframe. Two 5/8" hitch pins then drop through the box tubing trapping the round bar within the bracket. Then I lift the boom and the front of the subframe pivots up under the loader subframe at the bell housing. Two more 5/8" hitch pins hold that end. Lastly, I built a rigid toplink. It goes on/off in abouy 5 minutes and works great. My only wish is a bigger bucket, mine is only 10" or so. I have a lot of clay, and it clogs easily. I topped it all off with a Harley Davidson police bike solo seat.

 

[284 International]

Thank you all for the photos and ideas. I'll take pictures soon.

This backhoe mounted onto the lower link pins in the transmission casting with a set of notched tabs. A subframe bolted onto the loader frame toward the front of the machine.

I was planning to replicate this method for mounting. I'm a bit concerned about the ability of the pins to support the weight. I have seen numbers for this backhoe, from the manufacturer, for between 490 and 650 lbs, including mounting brackets and subframe, bucket, etc.

Should I do something to strengthen the pins for supporting this load? I know I should make things as strong as possible, but I'm not sure how to build a stronger lower mount than the pins. They seem to be as strong as anything else on the machine.

 

[Lil Foot]

Thank you all for the photos and ideas. I'll take pictures soon.

This backhoe mounted onto the lower link pins in the transmission casting with a set of notched tabs. A subframe bolted onto the loader frame toward the front of the machine.

I was planning to replicate this method for mounting. I'm a bit concerned about the abilitynofmthe pins tom support the weight. I have seen numbers for this backhoe, from the manufacturer, for between 490 and 650 lbs, including mounting brackets and subframe, bucket, etc.

Should I do something to strengthen the pins for supporting this load? I know I should make things as strong as possible, but I'm not sure how to build a stronger lower mount than the pins. They seem to be as strong as anything else on the machine.

Pics will help a lot, it will be easier to see if the mounting is adequate or if it needs to be beefed up.
For the B670, my manual list the shipping weight as 710 lbs, plus 33 lbs for the 10" bucket.

 

[MagKarl]

Go to Woods web site and find the manuals for backhoes section. They have a link to click to request a manual. They will email you a subframe installation manual for your model tractor. With that, you will see exactly how the backhoe and subframe are to be mounted.

 

[284 International]

I included a couple pictures of what I could; my B6000 isn't here at the moment, but the attached photo is representative.

The subframe is 1/2" x 2 1/2" plate, but the mounting brackets for the link pins is 5/8" I think.

My loader subframe is of the same material, and runs to the rear axle. My thought was to tie into that up front, and hang the backhoe off the link pins. I would run a cross-piece between the brackets that would mate with a bar coming off the drawbar, too, to take some of the weight. I would probably make that a bolted joint, tensioned to relieve stress on the lower link pins.

The little B6000 is so small there isn't much to attach otherwise. The casting doesn't have any other large bolt holes that I recall. I don't have a ROPS; where does it mount? The manual I have found for the 619B backhoe (The factory B6000 backhoe) appears that it is the identical hoe to what I've got, and attaches in the same fashion, using bushings to protect the link pins.

 

[Lil Foot]

Sounds like a plan..... you seem to have the same type attachment as mine, plus even more strength if you also tie in the drawbar.
On my B7100, the ROPS is bolted to the rear of the transmission housing, using (6) existing tapped holes, two in the side, & one in the rear. (per side)

 

[Lil Foot]

Ran across this thread, might be of some interest. Post #6, middle pic, looks like the same style sub frame as yours.
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3379