My BX25 is coming up on 50 hours. Getting ready to do change the oil. Is there any problems using after market filters. I'm one of those who change air filters a lot. For my bad boy zero turn I probably change the filter once a month and blow off in between. I get the filters off of ebay. They look the same (different color only) to the bad boy ones. What about air filters for the bx25? They look the same. If you are changing the filters often is there any reason not to use them? Also oil, any reason to only using the Kubota brand?
After Market Filters
- Thread starter Tattnall Guy
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Daren Todd
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Massey Ferguson 1825E, Kubota Z121S, Box blade, Rotary Cutter
You my friend, opened up the provervial can of worms
as long as the unit is under warranty, to keep the warranty valid, the filters need to meet the same specs as the dealer filter. Crossing the number to wix or baldwin meets this criteria as long as it's the exact number in the cross reference, and not a different one that fit's the threads.
Ran into this issue with a new tier 4 engine. Manufacturer has a patent on the fuel filter for a year. So I'm stuck using dealer filters for the fuel on that engine, till wix or baldwin can start making the filter in there name. One filter from the dealer is 70$ I have other filters on the shelf that cost 10$ and fit the threads, but can't use them sense the don't meet the same specs
as long as the unit is under warranty, to keep the warranty valid, the filters need to meet the same specs as the dealer filter. Crossing the number to wix or baldwin meets this criteria as long as it's the exact number in the cross reference, and not a different one that fit's the threads.Ran into this issue with a new tier 4 engine. Manufacturer has a patent on the fuel filter for a year. So I'm stuck using dealer filters for the fuel on that engine, till wix or baldwin can start making the filter in there name. One filter from the dealer is 70$
I have other filters on the shelf that cost 10$ and fit the threads, but can't use them sense the don't meet the same specs
85Hokie
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BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
I would use only Kubota stuff throughout the 1st two years while it is under warranty - then after that, I would still use it !!! The only change that I would consider is the engine oil. Never trust "looks" - looks on an air filter are one thing, and even then those looks can be misleading! Looks on an oil filter or hydra filter are completely different !!!! I cannot imagine the cost different between the $30 for the oil,air, and hydraulic filter (from kubota) compared to the few bucks saved via ebay -
When you get to the 200 hour mark - I would change the hydraulic oil to kubotas Sudt2 oil. It is expensive as shyte , but it works better in hot and cold and makes the whine go away!
The life of that engine and tranny all go through those filters!!! I would not save a buck there.....
just my two cents worth of savings......
I'm going to change the oil myself. Reason, the dealer promised that they would pickup and return the next day my BX25 for no cost, I just had to pay for the service. Well now it's a different story that it's time for service. They don't "recall that promise". It's $200 to pickup the tractor or $180 for them to come out to service. I'm not happy, it's not the money, I was lied to. I'm going to buy my supplies from another dealer and do it myself, a little longer drive but it's the principle. First tractor, learning curve.
My tractor is 32+ years old, got it new. I use WIX filters and TSC hydro and have for a number of years. That being said, If I had a new Kubota I would use only Kubota products for the first couple services and follow 85Hokie and Daren Todd advice.
A search on this topic will turn up a lot.
That said, at least in the case of the HST filter, for those so equipped with a magnet, NONE of the aftermarket filters have this, therefore, regardless if the filter is listed by a aftermarket filter maker as being the same as oem, it is in fact, NOT.
In this particular case, it can be said that the aftermarket filter makers are outright lying to you if they have a filter that "interchanges" and if they are willing to lie, what else are they doing to make there filters cheaper than the oem.
Yes, Kubota does not make there filters, but the filters that they have produced are built to Kubota specs. And that in no way means that the next batch of filters coming down the line for Fram (just for example) even though they "cross" over, are the built to the same specs.
It is hard to find EXACT specs on filters, when was the last time that you saw a specification for total filtration media? Fuel filters generally have a micon size filtration, but have you ever seen that listed for a oil filter? Unlike oil where everything is spec'd out.
and then there is the whole false economy thing, so you save $3-$4 a filter, what than means you save $30-$40 over a thousand operating hours for lube oil filters, of unknown specifications I might add. Not much real savings there in my opinion, after all those filters are protecting a 5k engine, and by extension a 20k tractor.
Food for thought
David
That said, at least in the case of the HST filter, for those so equipped with a magnet, NONE of the aftermarket filters have this, therefore, regardless if the filter is listed by a aftermarket filter maker as being the same as oem, it is in fact, NOT.
In this particular case, it can be said that the aftermarket filter makers are outright lying to you if they have a filter that "interchanges" and if they are willing to lie, what else are they doing to make there filters cheaper than the oem.
Yes, Kubota does not make there filters, but the filters that they have produced are built to Kubota specs. And that in no way means that the next batch of filters coming down the line for Fram (just for example) even though they "cross" over, are the built to the same specs.
It is hard to find EXACT specs on filters, when was the last time that you saw a specification for total filtration media? Fuel filters generally have a micon size filtration, but have you ever seen that listed for a oil filter? Unlike oil where everything is spec'd out.
and then there is the whole false economy thing, so you save $3-$4 a filter, what than means you save $30-$40 over a thousand operating hours for lube oil filters, of unknown specifications I might add. Not much real savings there in my opinion, after all those filters are protecting a 5k engine, and by extension a 20k tractor.
Food for thought
David
I guess this is a take it for what it's worth deal:
At the quarry I worked at in 97 we got 2 new Cat 769 trucks, a Komatsu WA600 loader and I got a Cat 980G loader. We all used the same lubricants and worked at the same location. The only difference is I was allowed to service my loader and from the time it was new and only used Cat filters. The first truck engine went down at just over 10K hrs. The second at 14K and the Komatsu loader was replaced at because the entire machine was worn out at about 12K.
My 980G was used for 11 years on the yard and had almost 26K hrs when I got my new 980H. The G model still ran almost like new and I never had to add oil between changes. I lost track of the machine with just over 30K hrs and the engine was still stock. I heard they pulled the engine and Cat said the bearings were in good enough shape they could have been put back in the and continue to run them.
I feel like propper warm up and shut down along with a strict PM program was the life of this machine. IMHO the filters played a big part in it's long and almost trouble free life. I got up to 3x the life of the other machines and when you're looking at a $100K engine replacement cost, that's huge.
At the quarry I worked at in 97 we got 2 new Cat 769 trucks, a Komatsu WA600 loader and I got a Cat 980G loader. We all used the same lubricants and worked at the same location. The only difference is I was allowed to service my loader and from the time it was new and only used Cat filters. The first truck engine went down at just over 10K hrs. The second at 14K and the Komatsu loader was replaced at because the entire machine was worn out at about 12K.
My 980G was used for 11 years on the yard and had almost 26K hrs when I got my new 980H. The G model still ran almost like new and I never had to add oil between changes. I lost track of the machine with just over 30K hrs and the engine was still stock. I heard they pulled the engine and Cat said the bearings were in good enough shape they could have been put back in the and continue to run them.
I feel like propper warm up and shut down along with a strict PM program was the life of this machine. IMHO the filters played a big part in it's long and almost trouble free life. I got up to 3x the life of the other machines and when you're looking at a $100K engine replacement cost, that's huge.
Not sure of Kubotas warranty policy but International and Freightliner will not warranty repairs if aftermarket filters are being used. I just replaced a 30 thousand dollar International Maxforce 7 engine that was not covered because it had a Wix oil filter on it.
I use only Kubota filters and probably will continue to do so after my warranty is over.
I use only Kubota filters and probably will continue to do so after my warranty is over.
I am sure others will post this - "According to the law, a manufacture cannot decline a warrantee just because a aftermarket filter has been installed". And that is very true. I thought I would add a few exceptions that many who cite the law seem to overlook. This law does apply, EXCEPT as follows;
1) The aftermarket filter DOES NOT meet oem specs, which has been determined to be the case with at least the Kubota HST filters with the magnet. No magnet = does not meet oem standards.
2) The aftermarket filter failed and caused say a loss of oil pressure because of a case failure. Or it caused a lubrication failure because some of the cheap aftermarket filters have cheap bypass valves that fail, and then you get unfiltered oil to the engine.
Sorry to hear of that cost, did the oem builder take apart the WIX filter and determine it to be the cause? WIX filters are generally pretty good quality, I have taken them apart and inspected them in comparison to the oem filters. Of course even WIX comes up short in the HST filter magnet.
David
Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, 15 U.S.C. SS 2301-1312 (1982), and general principles of the Federal Trade Commission Act, a manufacturer may not require the use of any brand of product (or any other article) unless the manufacturer provides the item free of charge under the terms of the warranty.
If no aftermarket filter has the magnet because of patent design, then Kubota should provide the filter FREE!
If no aftermarket filter has the magnet because of patent design, then Kubota should provide the filter FREE!
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I'm no lawyer and I am not going to read the text of the cited "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act"... but the idea that Kubota (or any other OEM) would provide filters for free-- or allow random aftermarket wear items during the warranty period seems absurd.
Go ahead and use those cheap eBay filters.
When the shi7 hits the fan, go ahead and also print out the Warranty Act and take that to the dealer.
The cost of litigating the matter might make you wish you had just bought the OEM filters by the dozen in the first place.
Really what it means is that if you do your own work and it goes tits up and cannot show that you have done the preventive maintenance then your SOL, however if you have the sales slips for the materials used, they do not have a leg to stand on.
HD, Ford, Chevy dealers have been using that same tactic for years, that they have to do ALL the work on your bike or car/truck or it voids the warranty,,
It don't work that way,,,
However I never heard of having to supply free parts because there is not an after market part before, I must have missed that part. Too many people don't know they don't have to roll over to a dealer and still keep their warranties clean.
HD, Ford, Chevy dealers have been using that same tactic for years, that they have to do ALL the work on your bike or car/truck or it voids the warranty,,
It don't work that way,,,
However I never heard of having to supply free parts because there is not an after market part before, I must have missed that part. Too many people don't know they don't have to roll over to a dealer and still keep their warranties clean.
Daren Todd
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Massey Ferguson 1825E, Kubota Z121S, Box blade, Rotary Cutter
I agree with skeets when ever I've had to fight a warranty issue on one of my pieces of equipment with the dealer. All I have to do is pull the maintenance hystory and email it to the dealer. We argue with them all the time and win.
To answer the op's original question about the air filters. I can say from ordering oem filters from the dealers. Half the time I'll recieve A donaldson air filter in the dealer box. Sometimes in a donaldson box with a sticker that has the dealer part number. This is from deere, clark, cat, and even kubota.
when ever I've had to fight a warranty issue on one of my pieces of equipment with the dealer. All I have to do is pull the maintenance hystory and email it to the dealer. We argue with them all the time and win. To answer the op's original question about the air filters. I can say from ordering oem filters from the dealers. Half the time I'll recieve A donaldson air filter in the dealer box. Sometimes in a donaldson box with a sticker that has the dealer part number. This is from deere, clark, cat, and even kubota.
Been down this road with Ford truck. Long story short. Bought a new F250. Did all the routine maintenance myself. A couple things done by a non Ford shop. Numerous problems done by Ford dealership. Ford co. would not budge about taking the truck back. Arbitration was initiated with a Maine State arbitrator. 5 min before the binding arbitration hearing was to start the Ford rep. ( who had been sitting next to me for 1/2 hr and never said a word), asked me if I would talk to him out side of the hearing (at this point needed approval from the arbitrator). They offered to buy the truck back minus $0.40 per mile driven. Went before arbitrate. Result: Ford had to take the truck back, refund the full purchase price and the cost of ALL repair plus $3,000 for my hassles.
That was 19 years ago. That was the third new Ford I owned and the second with allot of problems. Last Ford I have owned!
85Hokie
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BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
After reading all the horror stories --- i would use alllll kubota stuff............
just saying............$3 here and there savings is gonna suck the big one when something fails that moves the decimal three spaces to the right !!!!
Billdog350
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Kubota L3710 HST,L2230A QT,forks,Takeuchi TB125, 60" Luck Now pto Snowblower
Here's my $0.02.....
I found a Napa Wix HST filter on my B9200 when I bought it. I removed the filter to change it and heard it rattle. Looked inside and sure enough the inner METAL filter core had COLLAPSED and broken loose. It was not filtering at all.
I called Napa to get a price on a new filter before checking online for a Kubota HST filter and the Kubota one was CHEAPER! I've never seen a Kubota filter fail and I have changed hundreds of HST filters on everything from BX to L series machines...as well as hyd filters on M tractors, RTV's, Excavators, etc.
If the filters are CHEAPER and BETTER quality, why is there even a discussion? Order your filters online ahead of time and you're good to go!
I found a Napa Wix HST filter on my B9200 when I bought it. I removed the filter to change it and heard it rattle. Looked inside and sure enough the inner METAL filter core had COLLAPSED and broken loose. It was not filtering at all.
I called Napa to get a price on a new filter before checking online for a Kubota HST filter and the Kubota one was CHEAPER! I've never seen a Kubota filter fail and I have changed hundreds of HST filters on everything from BX to L series machines...as well as hyd filters on M tractors, RTV's, Excavators, etc.
If the filters are CHEAPER and BETTER quality, why is there even a discussion? Order your filters online ahead of time and you're good to go!
The point about what you are willing to fight for (and pay a lawyer to fight for) is pretty much on.
The MM warranty act does say what it is claimed to say, if they specify brand, they must provide the item, but I think the full text allows them for compensation comparable to other products of the same type on the market, I'm not sure it has to be free.
Now, with that firmly in mind, it also says that you are allowed to make changes to the unit without voiding the warranty as long as the change cannot have caused the issue being considered under the warranty. In other words, using an off brand oil filter cannot be the cause of a rim failure. The manufacturers have gotten quite good at linking things that really aren't related to looking related... thus back to the need to have a lawyer and your own paid for experts on a given issue.
So the ultimate choice is, which is cheaper: Using the off brand stuff, or a whole bevy of people to fight for you and the downtime on the unit?
If Mag/Moss had been so nice to put all the legal costs on the loser, then manufacturers might be less inclined to play legal chicken like this, but they are bigger than we are so they can get away with it.
I'll stick with the Kubota stuff. Since my L3200 is a DT model, I can get away with standard UDT I think...
The MM warranty act does say what it is claimed to say, if they specify brand, they must provide the item, but I think the full text allows them for compensation comparable to other products of the same type on the market, I'm not sure it has to be free.
Now, with that firmly in mind, it also says that you are allowed to make changes to the unit without voiding the warranty as long as the change cannot have caused the issue being considered under the warranty. In other words, using an off brand oil filter cannot be the cause of a rim failure. The manufacturers have gotten quite good at linking things that really aren't related to looking related... thus back to the need to have a lawyer and your own paid for experts on a given issue.
So the ultimate choice is, which is cheaper: Using the off brand stuff, or a whole bevy of people to fight for you and the downtime on the unit?
If Mag/Moss had been so nice to put all the legal costs on the loser, then manufacturers might be less inclined to play legal chicken like this, but they are bigger than we are so they can get away with it.
I'll stick with the Kubota stuff. Since my L3200 is a DT model, I can get away with standard UDT I think...
BAP
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2012 Kubota 2920, 60MMM, FEL, BH65 48" Bush Hog, 60"Backblade, B2782B Snowblower
Who do you think makes these OEM filters that everybody is raving about? It is highly unlikely that any of the equipment or automotive manufactures make their own filters. Most of them sub it out to a filter manufacturer.
You have the free filters because of the magnet backwards. It is NOT Kubota's issue and they in no way have to provide free filters because the aftermarket filters do not have that feature.
What MUST happen is that the AFTERMARKET filter manufacture MUST provide a filter that meets or exceeds oem specs. Sorry, if a aftermarket filter DOES NOT produce a filter that meets or exceeds the Kubota design, then how is that even in the slightest a KUBOTA problem?
So if the aftermarket is refusing to meet the design criteria of the oem design spec, Kubota is well within the law to refuse any and all damage that said inferior filter caused, and again, Kubota is in no way obligated to provide a free filters when ANY aftermarket filter manufacture is free to produce a oem equivalent filter.
That's try a different comparison to further prove this point - Kubota has a design spec for oil. So by your reasoning, if a customer chooses a cheap aftermarket oil that does not meet the Kubota oem spec, that would require Kubota to provide free oil? nope, it is up to the aftermarket oil manufacture to produce a oil that meets or exceeds the oem spec, and if that is not done, then Kubota is well within the law to deny any and all warrantee repairs arising from the usage of the cheap oil.
Basically, NO LAW makes the manufacture responsible for the use of cheap, below spec aftermarket parts.
It is not a game any manufacture plays, the design specs can be determined, and it is 100% on the aftermarket to see that there filters meet or exceed said design specs.
David