LA-211 Bucket Cylinder Reseal

dlsmith · Dec 14, 2019

A few weeks ago I noticed the bucket cylinder rod seal was leaking, do I looked up the seal kit number, 75582-64600, and ordered it from Messicks.
I also got an OTC 7463 gland nut wrench off Amazon and it fit the end cap on the cylinder just fine.

So, I decided to pull it apart today and get it fixed. I raised the bucket up and rolled it all the way back, pulled the extend hose off and plugged the hose and cylinder port, then pulled the valve lever out away from the tractor into the float position to let the bucket roll all the way back out. I pulled the pin out of the end and pulled the ram the rest of the way out and pulled the retract line off and plugged the line and the cylinder port. I used the glad wrench and loosened the end cap a couple of turns, then took the pin out of the other end. I took it to the bench and unscrewed the end cap and pulled the ram and piston out. Using the plugs and caps on the fittings and lines I only lost a few ounces of hydraulic oil.

It looks like the seal kit is not the right one As you can see in the picture, the piston has a wide plastic ring and a square seal ring, neither of which are in the seal kit.

In the parts manual there is a serial number break at 25520 as to which seal kit applies, and my LA-211 serial number is 34284. So according to that the 75582-64600 kit is correct. I looked at the picture of the seal kit for the lower serial number loaders, and I don't see a large ring in that kit either.

I guess I'll give Messick's a call on Monday and see what they can figure out.

North Idaho Wolfman · Dec 15, 2019

dlsmith said:
A few weeks ago I noticed the bucket cylinder rod seal was leaking, do I looked up the seal kit number, 75582-64600, and ordered it from Messicks.
I also got an OTC 7463 gland nut wrench off Amazon and it fit the end cap on the cylinder just fine.

So, I decided to pull it apart today and get it fixed. I raised the bucket up and rolled it all the way back, pulled the extend hose off and plugged the hose and cylinder port, then pulled the valve lever out away from the tractor into the float position to let the bucket roll all the way back out. I pulled the pin out of the end and pulled the ram the rest of the way out and pulled the retract line off and plugged the line and the cylinder port. I used the glad wrench and loosened the end cap a couple of turns, then took the pin out of the other end. I took it to the bench and unscrewed the end cap and pulled the ram and piston out. Using the plugs and caps on the fittings and lines I only lost a few ounces of hydraulic oil.

It looks like the seal kit is not the right one As you can see in the picture, the piston has a wide plastic ring and a square seal ring, neither of which are in the seal kit.

In the parts manual there is a serial number break at 25520 as to which seal kit applies, and my LA-211 serial number is 34284. So according to that the 75582-64600 kit is correct. I looked at the picture of the seal kit for the lower serial number loaders, and I don't see a large ring in that kit either.

I guess I'll give Messick's a call on Monday and see what they can figure out.

The large ring is in the 75582-64600 kit picture it's the one on the top with a split in the face of it, no other seals are split like that.

dlsmith · Dec 15, 2019

North Idaho Wolfman said:
The large ring is in the 75582-64600 kit picture it's the one on the top with a split in the face of it, no other seals are split like that.

The green one in the picture online at Messick's is like the other one on the right side. Even those two, if stacked are not as wide as the blue one on the piston. See the picture attached.

The dirt seal, shaft seal, the seal for the cap and barrel, and the yellow backup ring for the end cap look correct, but the o-ring on the cap is a rather thick one, and there are only a couple much thinner of o-rings in the kit.

Either this kit is labeled correctly or it was tampered with because my cylinder has eight pieces that you need to repair it, and there are 10 pieces in the 75582-64600 kit. The online picture shows nine pieces.

Even the parts diagram shows nine pieces for the kit. It shows an o-ring on the piston, mine has no o-ring on the piston as the picture shows, unless it is under the narrow blue/green ring as a seal.

I could just replace the rod seals, which appear correct to fix the leak, but while it's apart I would like to replace the end cap seals and piston seals.

I'm going to call Messick's on Monday morning and see what they have to say.

Dave_eng · Dec 15, 2019

The rod seal or wiper is not the seal which is leaking in my experience. You see the hydraulic oil coming out there but the real leak is deeper inside.

That seal is only to keep dirt and water out of the important seal which is inside the cylinder head which you unscrewed to open the cylinder. This will be an O ring and you have to take off the large nut on the end of the push rod to access it.

The external wiper seal cannot resist the hydraulic pressure in the cylinder. Friction is the only thing keeping it in place.

Dave

200mph · Dec 15, 2019

Just throwing this out there...

Since the wear rings or the rings with the split in them are narrower than whats shown in the picture (blue in color), could it be that two are used to make up the width? Personally I would find this odd if found to be true.

Technically these are not seals but wear strips to keep the piston from hitting the cylinder walls. ie: to keep metal contact from happening and damaging the surface which in turn would damage the seals.

dlsmith · Dec 15, 2019

Dave_eng said:
The rod seal or wiper is not the seal which is leaking in my experience. You see the hydraulic oil coming out there but the real leak is deeper inside.

That seal is only to keep dirt and water out of the important seal which is inside the cylinder head which you unscrewed to open the cylinder. This will be an O ring and you have to take off the large nut on the end of the push rod to access it.

The external wiper seal cannot resist the hydraulic pressure in the cylinder. Friction is the only thing keeping it in place.

Dave

Yes, I know the actual rod seal is back inside the end cap an inch or so, the metal shelled seal is pressed in and only there to keep dirt out.. It looks like those parts are correct for my cylinder.

I've probably rebuilt 20 or 30 cylinders of all sizes over the years, this is probably the smallest one ever. Most of them were off dozers, earthmovers and excavators.

dlsmith · Dec 15, 2019

200mph said:
Just throwing this out there...

Since the wear rings or the rings with the split in them are narrower than whats shown in the picture (blue in color), could it be that two are used to make up the width? Personally I would find this odd if found to be true.

Technically these are not seals but wear strips to keep the piston from hitting the cylinder walls. ie: to keep metal contact from happening and damaging the surface which in turn would damage the seals.

Yes, the two split green rings are probably wear rings, but even the two of them together aren't nearly as wide as the one on the piston.

Guessing from the parts in the kit, the piston that they are designed for has four groves, two for rubber o-ring seals, and two for the green wear rings.

200mph · Dec 15, 2019

Is it possible the cylinder was replaced some point along its life requiring a different seal kit?

dlsmith · Dec 15, 2019

200mph said:
Is it possible the cylinder was replaced some point along its life requiring a different seal kit?

I suppose it's possible. It is a 14 year old machine, but was a one owner before I got it, and is in pretty good shape.

One thing I noticed is that the part number stamped on the tube is 75538-64011, with a date of 06-02-04. In the parts list the low serial number assembly is a -64010 and the above serial number is -64110.

dlsmith · Dec 16, 2019

I talked to Dillon in the parts department at the Elizabethtown, PA Messick's store this morning and asked him what seal kit I need. He was stumped, since the one I had ordered should be the proper one for my loader. I sent him pictures of everything, and he called Kubota about it.
He called me back in about 15 minutes and said Kubota was puzzled too, because the cylinder I have is for an earlier model LA211, not the LA211-1 that is shown on the tag. So I need the seal kit for the lower serial number loader.
Dillon gave me an RMA# and sent me an email with a FEDEX label to print out to return the kit, and he is sending out the correct kit today via FEDEX.

Kudos to Dillon at Messick's in Etown. Great service.

So apparently, like 200mph suggested, it is a cylinder off an earlier loader that was put on to replace the original cylinder.

Mystery solved.

200mph · Dec 16, 2019

Glad you got this sorted out!

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LA-211 Bucket Cylinder Reseal

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