Here are the pages from my '24 F-450 owner's manual pertaining to the batteries and the BMS.
A bit of a long rant. They don't build pickup trucks like they use toooooo.
- Thread starter Blue2Orange
- Start date
What is "most". This is not useful information. It's just more of the 10 second click bait mindset that's so prevalent these days on YouTube, news media etc.
BMS has been around in Ford vehicles since at least 2011. Yes, batteries have become more involved as cars and trucks have become far more complex, but the fear-mongering that you can't change your batteries without going to a dealer is just plain wrong. Is this the case for some vehicles, perhaps, but it's not the case for Ford Super Duty trucks.
You bet.
It is well known that "trickle chargers," i.e., constant current chargers, will overcharge batteries if left connected long term.
Modern battery "maintainers," i.e., constant voltage chargers, can be left connected indefinitely, if designed for the type of battery to which connected. Yes, many modern battery maintainers can detect battery type and charge accordingly.
I am surprised that any manufacturer would suggest long term use of a "trickle" charger.
Last edited:
Yes, it is true that the term "trickle charger" has been compromised in the past couple of decades, much as the term "thermos bottle" has entered the lexicon to mean any vacuum bottle, despite efforts by the maker of the Thermos bottles to protect their trademark.Search for "trickle charger" on Amazon or just about anywhere else and see what shows up.
View attachment 174166
Still, such instructions are confusing for the knowledgeable, as there is a fundamental distinction between constant voltage chargers and constant current chargers and trickle chargers have been well known as inexpensive constant current chargers for 50 or 60 years despite what may be found on Amazon, etc. Lord knows what might show up when searching for just about anything on the IN.
I remain surprised that any manufacturer would recommend a trickle charger for long term connection, and I would have been corrected for writing such when I was writing instruction and service manuals decades ago. "Maintainer" or "float charger" would be more appropriate.
Last edited:
Runs With Scissors
Well-known member
Equipment
L2501 TLB , Grappel, Brush Hog, Box Blade, Ballast box, Forks, Tiller, PH digger
Whatever you do, don’t type in “French Trickler”………………….Now I have to delete my "browsing history”….Search for "trickle charger" on Amazon or just about anywhere else and see what shows up.
View attachment 174166
Blue2Orange
Well-known member
Equipment
BX2380 with LA344S & QH05. SB1051. SG0554. BB1248. RB0560, Vassar dirt bucket
IIRC, a YTube video review of battery chargers/maintainers link somewhere here at OTT. Most of the units reviewed had some issue with either overcharging, poor maintainer function..... Too much junk made and sold.
Interesting at least with the above Ford manual post (post #41) that it notes that after charging with an external charger the BMS needs 8 hours of sleep time to relearn the battery state of charge. Wonder if the same if you attach a maintainer, then let sit disconnected from it for 8 hours? Guessing the recommendation for disconnecting the negative if sitting for a long time is to prevent excessive deep discharge from all the parasitic draw of the various vehicle electrical systems?
Hard to access batteries have been around for a long, long time. My Mom has a Dodge "80sor maybe 90's vintage Stratus or something. She couldn't find the battery. I couldn't find it and told her to call the dealer.
Interesting at least with the above Ford manual post (post #41) that it notes that after charging with an external charger the BMS needs 8 hours of sleep time to relearn the battery state of charge. Wonder if the same if you attach a maintainer, then let sit disconnected from it for 8 hours? Guessing the recommendation for disconnecting the negative if sitting for a long time is to prevent excessive deep discharge from all the parasitic draw of the various vehicle electrical systems?
Hard to access batteries have been around for a long, long time. My Mom has a Dodge "80sor maybe 90's vintage Stratus or something. She couldn't find the battery. I couldn't find it and told her to call the dealer.
My BIL had one of those and on a dark rainy night the battery died. I jump started him and followed to Advance Autoparts where the flunky came out with his tester. All I wanted to know was the voltage while running so that I could go home knowing that that alternator would take him home and they wouldn't do the free battery change anyway. Flunky wouldn't give me the voltage so I went home.
Neighbor had a small Ford car that the first step in replacing the battery was to remove the windshield wiper, then assorted other junk to get to it.
I think it's semantics in this day and age with the evolution of car battery chargers from what they were 20 or 30 years ago to what are ubiquitous today. Even modern battery maintainers are trickle charging but they have the ability to prevent overcharging and also the ability to perform desulfation of the lead plates. This example is typical of what I'm talking about.
Larson Electronics Battery Maintainer and Trickle Charger
Regardless, all of this battery talk has reminded me that I really need to up my game and get a high quality charger. I had a charger for decades that was ok and a couple of years ago bought a charger from NAPA which is also just ok. It has an annoying timer feature like an old egg timer but I suppose that's to prevent overcharging.
I think a NOCO GENIUSPRO or similar is in my future. I have so many batteries to deal with and a good charger with some intelligence could be just the ticket. Currently I have four of the BatterMINDer branded maintainers which seem to do a decent job of keeping batteries topped off and lead sulfate free (I suppose).
I have I think about 13 of the BatteryMinder units - one on every piece of equipment that I don't use daily. They've pretty much doubled the life I get out of a battery, whether it is on my dirt bike or on my old John Deere.
I've had to two Optima blue top boat batteries connected to one BatteryMINDer all winter long as well as both batteries from the dump trailers connected to another. Supposedly you can connect as many as four batteries in parallel but I limit it to two. I had my Jeep TJ keeping the boat company all winter long in the storage unit and had the Optima yellow top in that vehicle connected to another of the maintainers. I admit that I've never connected any tractor batteries to maintainers but probably should.
Vehicle batteries are so expensive now that any reasonable measures to prolong life make a lot of sense. The F-450 came with a pair of AGM batteries and I'm running the same AGM batteries in the F-250. When the glow plugs are being energized in the F-250 I see (on the DP-Tuner programmer display) that battery voltage drops to around 11.8, and as soon as the glow plug relay is no longer energized the battery voltage jumps up to 12.5V to 12.8V. This is usually my indicator that the glow plugs have warmed the air in the cylinders sufficiently and the engine is ready to start.
Last edited:
Yes, it has become sematics, which is what I implied with my brief mention of the Thermos issue, which was a seminal tracemark case.
Modern maintainers are microprocessor controled and can determine battery type, e.g., flooded lead acid, deep cycle, AGM, 6V, 12V, etc., and charge accordingly. Some switch between constant voltage and constant current modes and most (all?) switch to pulse mode when desulfating. Of course, they change to "maintain" mode when the battery is fully charged to prevent overcharging, and can be left connected indefinitely.
After buying my new truck equipped with an AGM battery, I noticed that my older maintainer would never switch to maintain mode when connected to the AGM battery so I bought a new maintainer. I caught one on sale at HF for about $25 (50% off) and it appears to work well on all of my storage (another archaic term) batteries.
Yes, allowing storage batteries to self discharge for long periods of non-use will shorten the life of such batteries significantly, and keeping a decent maintainer connected indefinitely can, indeed, double the life of the battery.
I have a couple of Optima yellow top batteries that I managed to kill last year and one of the things that might push me into buying a fairly high end charger is the chance that it could restore the batteries via a forced charge. Optima batteries are expensive and even if those yellow tops are only good for the dump trailers that would be better than dropping them off at the local land fill.
I've never owned a really good battery charger so maybe it's time.
You might be more successful trying to restore your batteries by hitting them repetitively with an old high amperage charger for brief periods of time. I would do this outside in case one explodes.
If you can get them to start taking a charge, might want to switch to a more modern and more appropriate maintainer. It might take a couple of days each.
Blue2Orange
Well-known member
Equipment
BX2380 with LA344S & QH05. SB1051. SG0554. BB1248. RB0560, Vassar dirt bucket
I replaced the lead acid battery with an Optima Yellow top on the old NH when it was new. Lasted more than a decade. No maintainer. Price for the next Optima scared me into purchasing their digital smart charger. Only issue with the charger was that it shut down if the air temp dropped below 14F/-10C. Which back then were most winter nights. Lasted over a decade. Not dead, but load tested result was not good. Purchased another Optima, but within a few months traded in the NH for a Kubota. Using a Noco Genius5 on the BX. Liked it enough I picked up a 2nd G5 for the truck. That one died within warranty. Noco replaced it. AGM truck battery was expensive. Hope is to get at least a year or two more useable life by using the Noco as a maintainer. Noco relative to the Optima charger was inexpensive.