Can you lend me 35 cents for a hamburger today, and I will gladly pay back on Tuesday????

[Runs With Scissors]

So there I am, inbetween projects, waiting on parts/things/people/machines.

I am busier than a “One legged man, in an ass kicking contest”, but things have "ground to a halt" for one reason or another,….Then an opportunity to expand my “machinist skill set” arises.

One thing I love to do is work in the “Ever expanding, never ending, home shop”.

I have been aching to do a machining project, but for whatever reason, shit happens and I get sidetracked.

But an opportunity arose to help a guy out by making a “tapered bushing” for him to repair a “wallerd out” tie rod hole.

I think I can do it, but it’s a first for me.

I contacted him via PM, and he agreed to send me the tie rod end so I could measure it up, and try to make the bushing.

I need to make a version of a bushing, (that another member suggested) for a tie rod end to try and help at least “put off” a semi-pricey repair.

EDIT:…..I try to always “give background info/credit” when its due/appropiate…..so here is the thread….https://www.orangetractortalks.com/...case-where-tie-rod-ball-joint-connects.78884/

The bushing idea was @#40Fan ’s, ………...not mine.

DOUBLE EDIT:…..I volunteered to do this, but @Scm sent me compensation out of the goodness of his heart…..Thank you sir!



So………..Off we go.

I start watching a few videos on how to turn tapers….now after a few, I am kinda getting the idea on how to do it.

There seems to be a few methods, but I decide on “Turning the compound” method.

So the first thing is to measure the diameter of the Big side and Little side and figure out what the taper angle is.

I grab the nearest “bar napkin”…(AKA paper plate) and with a little simple Trig, I have what I beleive is the correct angle……7.4 degrees.









So with that knowledge, it’s off to the lathe to try and figure out how to set this up.


I set up my indicator on the “mid-line” using my “Go-No Go” gauge and turn the compound to what I believe is 7.4 degrees, and run the indicator “back and forth”.




It goes from 0 to .060” to within .001” on my first try……So that alone, makes me skeptical, but hey……Even blind squirrels find nuts once in a while???? …………….right?????







So I set up a boring bar, and use the compound to cut the angle.

I can’t really “see” Jack Squat…..It's all by feel, and watching the DRO, However, nonetheless, I am feeling optimistic

(BTW “optimistic” is almost always a “bad sign”, ……………..but whatever…………… )








Now………..My limited exposure to “boring bars” has led me to believe that many, many, many, many, many “light cuts” is superior to heavier cuts due to “spring back”.

So it seems like I did 1,000 passes…..but it was probably 20’ish…or so)

Now here is the sh1tty part…..I can’t “test” the piece on the lathe because the stud of the tie rod is hitting the end of the piece without it being “parted off” so I have to “go with my gut” and I decide to turn the OD to size and "risk it”…….

Bad Move Dumbass…………….

I jacked something up, and its ”Way F’d up"











I have no idea what happened………..Just an all around “shit show” .

I better just “Put the tools away, and break out the Rum and Cigars”…..



Like Gunny T used to say…………..F’it, tomorrow is a new day, let's look at it again with “fresh eyes”.

 

[Sidekick]

Time for a CNC lathe .

 

[#40Fan]

Does the angle feel right? Cut the piece in half so you can get it down further on the tie rod to check.

Next time, measure the I.D. of the big end of the taper while cutting and compare to the measurement on the tie rod where you want the bushing to sit.

Edit to add: Even if you make the big end of the taper too big, you can always face it off to get to a smaller size.

 

[Russell King]

@Runs With Scissors you were almost right but your geometry and math got confused and you forgot to divide by two.

Here is your plate sketch with an attempt at drawing the TWO triangles that give you the angle you need (Let’s call it Alpha). Notice there is a distance “X” on both sides.

So X is half of the distance from the large diameter to the small diameter.

Here is your other calculation sheet with a mark up


I think that if you use .030 instead of .060 in your trig formula (which is poorly written but I will fuss about that in a minute) you will get the correct angle. I believe Alpha calcuates to be 3.9 degrees.

Now to fuss about your written trig formula…
The trig formula must be based on an angle (Alpha in this case). So you neglected to write your formulas correctly since there is no named angle involved.

To be specific
Tan (Alpha) = Side opposite/side adjacent
Inverse Tan (side opposite/side adjacent) = Alpha

That is just nitpicking and I am happy that you are able to recall any of your trigonometry functions and use them! You must not have been that kid that said “When will I ever use this in real life?”

 

[ken erickson]

Curious , if the outside walls of the bushing are straight sided why you did not just turn the bushing to outside dimensions, diameter and length, chuck up in 3 jaw chuck, then drill a hole slightly smaller than the small end of taper , then switch to boring bar and cut the inside to dimension?

You would have been able to test fit tie rod end without removing from chuck. Part would have been more rigid as a bonus and give you a nicer finish with boring bar.

 

[jimh406]

Interesting project. Is it only for practice or don't they make them any more?

In any case, I'm wondering what the payback is.

 

[D2Cat]

Must be the shitts to have to have everything perfect! I've had a problem like that and simply used an aluminum can cut to press the tapered pin into. Tightened the tie rod up without math!! (and lasted for years)

 

[Scm]

Thank you Paul for stepping up to help me with my redneck repair. Once I get these big beautiful bushings I'll post pics of how i hack install these.

 

[Scm]

used an aluminum can cut to press the tapered pin into. Tightened the tie rod up without math!! (and lasted for years)

I tried a piece of stainless steel band clamp. Still there, but didn't last long. got sloppy again in 2 days

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Lots of great ideas and solutions fellas!!!!!

So as this story unfolds, I sat there and it’s just one of those things that “bugs me”….So mentally I am going over it in my mind, and I can’t figure out what went wrong….

So I get up at Zero Dark Thirty and pour some covvefffe and look at my calculations again….

Aside” @Russell King you correct about my sloppy trig. I do/should know better…..


I pour over everything I did, and I still can’t find my mistake…..Which by the way, as most of you know, is SUPER FRUSTRATING!!!!!!

I am pouring over videos to help me try and figure out what I did wrong and trying to figure out a “better/easier way” to make an inside taper when I stumble across a video that piques my interest.

Long story short, this guy says that making a series of “steps” can help with the “spring back effect” and makes the tapers come out better….But it involves a little more math cause you have to figure out each triangle.

Well for whatever reason, this sounds like a good plan to me.

So I decide to “slow down” and make a nicer drawing using the $2K CAD program that I have….

I am still not very good at using this program. It is very “counter-intuitive” to me personally. but I am “getting better”…….

So as I “sketch” it out, I eventually figure out how to make the computer figure out my angles and display them...





And BAM…… @Russell King was 100% correct…..I forgot to divide by 2.




When I saw that, you could have knocked me over with a feather.

It was a classic case of “Not being able to see the forrest, through the trees"

Well now, between the covvffee and the adrenaline, I am “pumped up”.

So it’s off to the “Bat Cave"

So the set up is basically the same as before, but this time, the angle on the compound is set for 3.5.

I drill the “main hole” a little undersized, and use the boring bar take a series of light cuts to make the “steps” like that guy in the video suggested.

Now I am “cooking with gas”, and I can feel it………….








Thats when I find out, that I have broken my favorite parting tool somehow, and I need to part it off using the “traditional forward” method……..

So after lots of chatter and smoke, I finally get it off




And here she is………….


After a little “fitting”, she fits pretty good.

Not exactly, “professional quality” but I am pretty happy with the fit.






I/we think it will work good enough with a washer or 2 “sammich’ing” it in.

I think he can at least “kick the can down the road” for a while.

Well, anywhoooo, I shipped it yesterday, so we will find out soon enough.


To Be Continued……….

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Curious , if the outside walls of the bushing are straight sided why you did not just turn the bushing to outside dimensions, diameter and length, chuck up in 3 jaw chuck, then drill a hole slightly smaller than the small end of taper , then switch to boring bar and cut the inside to dimension?

You would have been able to test fit tie rod end without removing from chuck. Part would have been more rigid as a bonus and give you a nicer finish with boring bar.

Yes sir…..That would/is a great idea.

It’s simply a case of “didn’t think about it at the time"

If/when I do another one, I will definitely do as you suggested.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Does the angle feel right? Cut the piece in half so you can get it down further on the tie rod to check.

Next time, measure the I.D. of the big end of the taper while cutting and compare to the measurement on the tie rod where you want the bushing to sit.

Edit to add: Even if you make the big end of the taper too big, you can always face it off to get to a smaller size.

It felt pretty bad…..I just knew I had F’d it up.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Interesting project. Is it only for practice or don't they make them any more?

In any case, I'm wondering what the payback is.

I never checked to see if they make them

It’s just practice/hobby type of stuff.

 

[Yooper]

By now you have realized you are in a race without a finish line! Learning while doing is part of the fun and frustration. The saying is ask three machinists how to do something and you’ll get four answers.

This is my two cents: Whenever possible, I will chuck up the mating part and use that to set the angle with the dial indicator. I think it may have been possible that you could chuck up the threaded end and swept the taper to dial in the compound.

Another tip is to lap the two surfaces together afterwards to achieve a good fit.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

By now you have realized you are in a race without a finish line! Learning while doing is part of the fun and frustration. The saying is ask three machinists how to do something and you’ll get four answers.

This is my two cents: Whenever possible, I will chuck up the mating part and use that to set the angle with the dial indicator. I think it may have been possible that you could chuck up the threaded end and swept the taper to dial in the compound.

Another tip is to lap the two surfaces together afterwards to achieve a good fit.

Thanks for the tips!

I have a tube of valve lapping compound thats been sitting there for probably 25 years or so….should have thought of that.

I tried using Dykem to see how well they were mating, but it just ran everywhere, so I ordered a tube of “prussian blue” last night.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Ahem, did you not forget the step? Or the same angle at the outside as a slieve into a tapered hole?

Or is this being welded in?

 

[Russell King]

@jimh406 and @Hugo Habicht

See this thread from @Scm that shows the problem.

I assume he has decided to bore a cylindrical hole in the tractor and shrink in this cylindrical OD bushing to replace the current bad taper connection.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

I assume he has decided to bore a cylindrical hole in the tractor and shrink in this cylindrical OD bushing to replace the current bad taper connection.

That's why I was asking. I remember that @#40Fan s drawing had a step in it to prevent being pulled through when tightening the taper nut.

 

[Sidekick]

Don't they sell a 7 degree to 10 degree tapered bushing for repairing tie rods. I know a friend of mine used one years ago where he just ran a standard 10 degree tie rod reamer in the spindle and the bushing locked on place when the tie rod nut was torqued through the 7 deg inner taper to fix a elongated worn spindle. Still taper locked with no welding required to mess with the metallurgy. It was a dirt track modified car so may have been a specialty part.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Ahem, did you not forget the step? Or the same angle at the outside as a slieve into a tapered hole?

Or is this being welded in?

After some “discussion”, as @Russell King notes, we felt that trying to machine a step would have been too difficult, given the tools/machinery available.

So the hope is that one or 2 "thin washers" will keep it in place for a while.