PTO works, then fails on 2010 L3200HST

[Redcorn]

I recently posted a problem with the tractor starting fine, but dying once I pressed the pedal forward or back. Got good advice (new seat safety switch) and have used the tractor daily since, no issues.

Today I hooked up an auger, operated the auger for about 5 minutes, some start and stop, no problem. Then, with PTO engaged, auger running, tractor dies. Restart, operate for about 15 seconds, dies again. Next try, dies almost immediately. Leave it for 15 minutes, come back, start, engage the PTO, dies after a few seconds, next try, at PTO contact, tractor dies immediately. I'm in the seat the whole time. Range lever at "N". Tested the PTO Safety Switch per WSM. It's fine.

I'm mystified.

Ray

 

[85Hokie]

Ray,

Don't pull your hair out just yet!!!

I have a BX, and with PTO in the off position and the tractor running - I get off and it cuts off! ( should stay running btw)

It frustrated me UNTIL I look at the little metal "tab" that pushes against the PTO switch ITSELF, over time the metal piece seems to bend ever so slightly that with the PTO off it will still THINK it is engaged - thus cutting the machine off when leaving the seat.

I am not saying this is your problem - but rather something to look at as a possibility

Find where the PTO switch is and what is making contact with the switch - and if you have tested it, simply bypass it with a zip ties or something - see if this stops the problem - if it does then you know where to look for the fix!

 

[Redcorn]

Thank you. I have one more thing to add that may help, discovered while checking on how your suggestion would work.

On the 3200 HST, the PTO safety switch has two thin spring-type levers which make contact with the PTO control arm when DISENGAGED, holding the spring levers down. When one engages the PTO, the control arm moves AWAY from these spring levers, the levers move away from the switch proper.

EACH spring lever on the switch looks to have two wires coming from it, so there are 2 pair of wires to the switch, apparently one for each lever. The control arm actuates both levers at one time.

With the engine off and the control arm in the ENGAGED (away from the spring levers), one can press each lever up and down with a finger. If one turns the ignition switch ON (without starting) and presses the levers, one of the levers makes something else click, and the other does not. This doesn't really square with what the multitester says, but that's the experience I'm having now.

I'm not sure why there are (or appear to be) two tandem switches with identical blue wires (2) going to both, but shouldn't both make the clicking sound?

 

[Redcorn]

After looking at the wiring diagram, there are two circuits served by the tandem switches. Likely part of the OPC system. It makes sense that only one may work at time, depending what else is going in the system.

I took your advice and with the PTO in the engaged position, used rubber bands to hold both switches in the position they would be when the PTO was disengaged. Absolutely nothing when I turn the key.

I couldn't find another switch on the cable that controls the PTO.

For grins, I turned the ignition "on", and operated the PTO control lever repeatedly from "engaged" to "disengaged". It made the same noise as when I pressed and released it with my finger.

Also, if I have the PTO in the disengaged position, start the tractor, depress the clutch, and move the PTO to "engage", the tractor dies immediately, even when I haven't let the clutch out.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

There are 2 switches for the PTO, they work with different circuits via the HST pedal switch and seat switch.
If one is not working properly then the HST switch will kill the engine when it's moved.


The WSM covers the workings.
Look at the envelope top right of your screen.

 

[Redcorn]

Asking for clarification.

When I'm operating the auger, the tractor is stationary. The tractor is dying while stationary, when the PTO switch is engaged. I'm not operating the foot pedal, and otherwise the tractor performs normally. Am I missing something?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Asking for clarification.

When I'm operating the auger, the tractor is stationary. The tractor is dying while stationary, when the PTO switch is engaged. I'm not operating the foot pedal, and otherwise the tractor performs normally. Am I missing something?

Yes - the seat switches interact with the pto switch. Your symptoms point to a problem there.

Dan

 

[Redcorn]

Picking up two switches this morning and Installing. Will report.

I don't go to the casino. Instead I just replace parts before I'm absolutely sure I need them.

It's cheaper with the parts.

 

[Russell King]

Asking for clarification.

When I'm operating the auger, the tractor is stationary. The tractor is dying while stationary, when the PTO switch is engaged. I'm not operating the foot pedal, and otherwise the tractor performs normally. Am I missing something?

But the HST switch may be out of neutral position adjustment, so even if the pedal linkage is not moving the tractor, the switch might indicate that the tractor should be moving??

 

[whitetiger]

But the HST switch may be out of neutral position adjustment, so even if the pedal linkage is not moving the tractor, the switch might indicate that the tractor should be moving??

If the HST pedal is not in neutral, the starter will not crank the engine.

 

[Redcorn]

Appreciate the input.

Replaced both PTO safety switches this morning with new. No difference in tractor behavior. Start, run, move PTO lever to "engage". Tractor dies. BTW, this is without anything attached to the PTO. No load.

To repeat from above, the HST-specific pedal safety switch was just replaced. Seat switch was jumped. Operated the tractor for a couple of days, no problem. Attached the auger, engaged the PTO, operated and dug a hole 16" deep, tractor died. Disengaged PTO, started the tractor, re-engaged PTO, got about 10-15" seconds of run, dies. From then on, as soon as the PTO is engaged tractor dies, even with no load.

 

[TheOldHokie]

But the HST switch may be out of neutral position adjustment, so even if the pedal linkage is not moving the tractor, the switch might indicate that the tractor should be moving??

Appreciate the input.

Replaced both PTO safety switches this morning with new. No difference in tractor behavior. Start, run, move PTO lever to "engage". Tractor dies. BTW, this is without anything attached to the PTO. No load.

To repeat from above, the HST-specific pedal safety switch was just replaced. Seat switch was jumped. Operated the tractor for a couple of days, no problem. Attached the auger, engaged the PTO, operated and dug a hole 16" deep, tractor died. Disengaged PTO, started the tractor, re-engaged PTO, got about 10-15" seconds of run, dies. From then on, as soon as the PTO is engaged tractor dies, even with no load.

You need to do some real electrical diagnosis on the safety switch circuit. Randomly throwing parts at it is not getting the job done.

Dan

 

[Redcorn]

I agree. I'm almost there, but loading the tractor, driving 70 miles round trip, and paying dealer labor rates MIGHT be saved by a person who recognizes the problem on this forum and can help. At worst, I'll (hopefully) learn where all these relays and switches are, what they do, and how they interact.

I'm really thankful for all the help I've received here, including your advice, which I may soon follow.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I agree. I'm almost there, but loading the tractor, driving 70 miles round trip, and paying dealer labor rates MIGHT be saved by a person who recognizes the problem on this forum and can help. At worst, I'll (hopefully) learn where all these relays and switches are, what they do, and how they interact.

I'm really thankful for all the help I've received here, including your advice, which I may soon follow.

I was not suggesting a trip to the deaker.

You will find that info in the WSM. Its usually very well documented including diagnodtic pricedures.

Dan

 

[JasonW]

I agree. I'm almost there, but loading the tractor, driving 70 miles round trip, and paying dealer labor rates MIGHT be saved by a person who recognizes the problem on this forum and can help. At worst, I'll (hopefully) learn where all these relays and switches are, what they do, and how they interact.

I'm really thankful for all the help I've received here, including your advice, which I may soon follow.

We can only do so much through the internet. You have been given ample advice. Have to get a multimeter and troubleshoot.

 

[Redcorn]

Thanks, Jason. I've used the WSM, my multimeter, and the advice provided here to the best of my ability. I've also used AI, at least to identify the known symptoms of failure of 1) the OPC timer, 2) the key stop selenoid relay, and 3) the key stop selenoid. None apply to my situation, best I can tell. Those three, along with the seat switch and the PTO switch (both replaced), are the five components of the OPC system according to the WSM.

When I know I'm at the limit of my ability, I should stop unless I learn something new or I'm presented with new information. I expect I'll end up at the dealership. If so, I'll share the results here so maybe someone else can benefit.

Thanks to all who commented.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

What you are describing might just be a failing stop solenoid (or in this case it's a run solenoid).

 

[Redcorn]

The WSM says the holding coil should be at 15.6 ohms. Mine is 15.8.

It says the pulling coil should be at 0.375. Mine is at 0.6. Repeated the measurement several times to make sure.

WSM says: "If resistance differs from the factory specification, the coil is
faulty."

AI says increased resistance on the pulling coil indicates possible failure. I tested the 2 pole power supply and it matches the battery on both sides. The connector looks fine in terms of condition.

Ordered the part. Will report.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The WSM says the holding coil should be at 15.6 ohms. Mine is 15.8.

It says the pulling coil should be at 0.375. Mine is at 0.6. Repeated the measurement several times to make sure.

WSM says: "If resistance differs from the factory specification, the coil is
faulty."

AI says increased resistance on the pulling coil indicates possible failure. (forgive me, I can wire a house and pass inspection but wiring diagrams use a symbolism I haven't mastered) I tested the 2 pole power supply and it matches the battery on both sides. The connector looks fine in terms of condition.

Feedback before placing the order for the part? And many thanks for the suggestion.

Those differences are outside the accuracy of most meters.

Dan

 

[JasonW]

Feedback before placing the order for the part? And many thanks for the suggestion.

Stop using AI to troubleshoot.