Is anyone Monitoring Their Hydrostatic Oil Temps During the Past Few yrs of Elevated Summer Temps?

[LFP57]

During the last few years of higher-than-normal summer temps if anyone has seen an increase in their oil temps, I haven't seen much written about and if I understand it correctly, just a 15-degree increase in oil temp (above 140) will cut the life of the oil in half.

I have a Kubota LX2610 ROPS with the Silly Straw tube heat exchanger and thought about going to something a little bit more efficient, like a tube/fin or plate cooler with a gauge to monitor the temps. Has anyone done this swap and is willing to share their project and what they used to mount the cooler.

I'm guessing that much of the mounting hardware is already there and may include some additional brackets to mount the factory AC condenser which could be used to mount an aftermarket cooler.

 

[JasonW]

Not a tractor but in a truck. I added a Hayden plate type with a built in fan and thermostat that kicks on I think at 180 degrees.

 

[#40Fan]

I meant to check the temps on my TLB on the return side of the hydraulic cooler last summer, but never got around to it. I know my cylinders get pretty damn hot after running the machine for a few hours in the heat.

 

[LFP57]

Not a tractor but in a truck. I added a Hayden plate type with a built in fan and thermostat that kicks on I think at 180 degrees.

I've done the upgrade on a number of vehicles as well for both trans and engine. The cooler units are a dime a dozen, I was hoping someone had already done the upgrade to the hydraulic system, I like to keep things looking like factory installs and using any brackets already available, if not, I can make my own.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Sounds like internet scare tactics. I’d like to see some real world data on temperatures above 140 “cutting the life in half”.
Call me a skeptic….

 

[JasonW]

I've done the upgrade on a number of vehicles as well for both trans and engine. The cooler units are a dime a dozen, I was hoping someone had already done the upgrade to the hydraulic system, I like to keep things looking like factory installs and using any brackets already available, if not, I can make my own.

Well if you’ve already done it on “a number of vehicles” then you shouldn’t have any problem.
I would check the temperature on a hot day after using it a while with an infrared thermometer, it might not get as hot as you think.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Another someone has been reading and relying on AI answers.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The rule being quoted is based on the Arrhenius Rate Rule which predicts rate of chemical reaction as a function of temperature. The accuracy of that equation is well established.

In the case of applying that equation to hydraulic oil service life things get a bit murky.

How Heat Affects Lubricants: Understanding the Arrhenius Rate Rule

In the field of lubrication, temperature is a critical factor that can significantly impact lubricant life and machinery reliability. The Arrhenius Rate Rule offers a scientific basis for understanding and predicting lubricant degradation, enabling proactive measures that extend the life of your...

www.machinerylubrication.com

The industry has arbitrarily established 140F (68C) as the standard for max service life. From there every 10C increase results in twuce as much thermal oxidation hence the "halves service life" prediction. That is not the death sentence most people attribute to it.

A more practical rule for mobile equipment is sump temps over 80C (176F) will have very real and practical negative consequences on service life. Likewise a high quality synthetic oil like SUDT2 will survive longer at 80C than a Grouo II based conventional oil. Intervals of higher temp increase oxidation but they dont immediately halve the service life.

As pointed out in the article I linked there are a host of other factors that play a role in service life. Dont get hung up on the "10C temp increase halves service life" and 140F metric. Its very deceiving language.

Dan

 

[whitetiger]

Another someone has been reading and relying on AI answers.

But it was on the inter-web!!!!!

 

[mikester]

I'd be more interested in a reversible radiator fan. An auto-reverser circuit to keep the engine coolant and hydraulic oil radiators clean would be more beneficial than simply adding another hydraulic radiator to the circuit.

Right now I have to stop periodically and use a battery operated leaf blower to do a cleanout of all the dust and chaff.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Sounds like internet scare tactics. I’d like to see some real world data on temperatures above 140 “cutting the life in half”.
Call me a skeptic….

More like miss-analysis by internet amateurs. See my comments in post #8.

The basic premise is well established by real life testing. The rate of thermal oxidation in lube oils increases exponentially with temperature and essentially doubles with evety 10C increase in oil temperature.

The application of that rule and tying service life to that 140F metric is where the logic goes off the rails.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Sounds like internet scare tactics. I’d like to see some real world data on temperatures above 140 “cutting the life in half”.
Call me a skeptic….

I bought a JD rider(3 years young) , HST was almost shot,rest of rider you could eat off it was that clean. Drives on level ground but NOT up a shallow incline. Very little oil in the HST. Turns out JD cheaped out on the HST, so HST gets hot(normal...) , some oil(SAE30) becomes vapour, floats away. Now less oil, it gets hotter, even more vapour floats away, It keeps getting worse until very little oil and HST parts like pump and rollers die from overheating. If caught early, only cost $25 for parts, that JD didn't have in the HST plus adding full synthetic oil. That oil has a much higher temp rating.

 

[The Evil Twin]

I'd be more interested in a reversible radiator fan. An auto-reverser circuit to keep the engine coolant and hydraulic oil radiators clean would be more beneficial than simply adding another hydraulic radiator to the circuit.

Right now I have to stop periodically and use a battery operated leaf blower to do a cleanout of all the dust and chaff.

Brilliant!

 

[JasonW]

I'd be more interested in a reversible radiator fan. An auto-reverser circuit to keep the engine coolant and hydraulic oil radiators clean would be more beneficial than simply adding another hydraulic radiator to the circuit.

Right now I have to stop periodically and use a battery operated leaf blower to do a cleanout of all the dust and chaff.

That’s a good idea, most heavy equipment has this with an hydraulic fan. So on the tractors would you remove the factory mechanical fan? I’m not sure how well it would work blowing the chaff back towards the inside of the grill and reversing back normal of how much it would actually remove.

 

[Old Machinist]

The only checking I've done was when I built my home brew third function. The holes in the valve were tiny so I was concerned about it increasing temps. The valve was rated at 15 GPM and I don't see how that is possible but I didn't test the flow through it. I DID check the temperature on the factory bypass tube before removing it and also at the return fitting after I had the valve in place. I don't recall the actual temps or if there was any significant difference but it was less than 130F either way. There was a slight increase between the supply and return fitting but it was insignificant.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The only checking I've done was when I built my home brew third function. The holes in the valve were tiny so I was concerned about it increasing temps. The valve was rated at 15 GPM and I don't see how that is possible but I didn't test the flow through it. I DID check the temperature on the factory bypass tube before removing it and also at the return fitting after I had the valve in place. I don't recall the actual temps or if there was any significant difference but it was less than 130F either way. There was a slight increase between the supply and return fitting but it was insignificant.

IIRC the ports in s D03 valve are .268 and they will flow more than 15 GPM.

"Flow rating" is an arbitrary number based on the pressure drop across the valve. For any given valve the flow rating can be higher or lower depending on the pressure drop the engineer is willing to accept.

Dan

 

[Old Machinist]

IIRC the ports in s D03 valve are .268 and they will flow more than 15 GPM.

"Flow rating" is an arbitrary number based on the pressure drop across the valve. For any given valve the flow rating can be higher or lower depending on the pressure drop the engineer is willing to accept.

Dan

I don't recall what they measured but I'm pretty sire they were nowhere near a 1/4". I think I found a 5/32 drill to fit the hole inside the ports. The valve I used was a Chief 229313DIN rated at 16 GPM. Point is moot since it worked fine and didn't restrict the flow enough to increase the fluid temperature.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I don't recall what they measured but I'm pretty sire they were nowhere near a 1/4". I think I found a 5/32 drill to fit the hole inside the ports. The valve I used was a Chief 229313DIN rated at 16 GPM. Point is moot since it worked fine and didn't restrict the flow enough to increase the fluid temperature.

Well I was (miss) quoting the ISO subplate standard which is 7.5mm (.295) max. The ports on a specific valve can of course be smaller.

In any event a 4 mm port can flow more than 15 GPM. They engineering issue is whats the pressure drop at that flow rate.

Dan

 

[LFP57]

Sounds like internet scare tactics. I’d like to see some real world data on temperatures above 140 “cutting the life in half”.
Call me a skeptic….

This was not just repeating something someone said on YouTube, there's numerous hydraulic companies putting out information on hydraulic temps, such as the image attached. My initial thought was regarding this statement, and the others would be the length of time operating the equipment during elevated temperatures would have more effect on oil degradation.

The initial post had nothing to do with scare tactics, I had asked if anyone had been monitoring their temps and if they made any changes to the oil cooler.

 

[LFP57]

Well if you’ve already done it on “a number of vehicles” then you shouldn’t have any problem.
I would check the temperature on a hot day after using it a while with an infrared thermometer, it might not get as hot as you think.

This is way I asked if others are seeing higher temps and if if was worth looking further into.