G1800, ran out of diesel...

[newzealander]

Hi all,
I inherited a fairly rough g1800 when I bought my property.
The engine ran really well until my wife ran it out of diesel.
The lift pump doesn't appear to work, does that make sense? Ie could it have been previously running without the lift pump?
I have tried several times to bleed it but am failing. I can't see how I can bleed it without the pump as the fuel tank is lower than the injectors?
Any help would be appreciated

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Hi,

are you sure you ran out of Diesel?

If the pump died the engine would stop the same way as if the tank is empty, no power, stuttering and then stopping. I do not think the engine runs without the pump.

Check the 10A fuse (cover under steering wheel), if that is ok check for voltage at the pump connector. Check between both connector pins while the pump is connected, could be a faulty ground connection too.

Get the pump working again, just turning on the ingnition for about 30 seconds will bleed the fuel system.

Kind regards,
Hugo

P.s.: do you have a work shop and operator manual?

 

[newzealander]

Thanks alot for your advice Hugo, I didn't know those fuses existed!
There is 2 blown fuses, a 30amp and a 20amp.
I can't get in to town to purchase replacements until tomorrow.
Will update once the fuses are replaced.
I think I do have a workshop manual downloaded somewhere, not sure about the operator manual

Hi,

are you sure you ran out of Diesel?

If the pump died the engine would stop the same way as if the tank is empty, no power, stuttering and then stopping. I do not think the engine runs without the pump.

Check the 10A fuse (cover under steering wheel), if that is ok check for voltage at the pump connector. Check between both connector pins while the pump is connected, could be a faulty ground connection too.

Get the pump working again, just turning on the ingnition for about 30 seconds will bleed the fuel system.

Kind regards,
Hugo

P.s.: do you have a work shop and operator manual?

 

[Hugo Habicht]

There is a reason for a fuse to blow. You should check for the cause first, typically it would be a short somewhere.

I think I do have a workshop manual downloaded somewhere, not sure about the operator manual

The operator manual is important, I think, there is certain maintenance required to keep the machine running and prevent expensive repairs. I "inherited" a G1900 that had been neglected and had not seen grease in years. You may check Link Reviving a G1900 for servicing and some repairs.

Click on the envelope in the top right corner of the forum window.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

There should not be a 20A and 30A fuse in your G1800. Fuses depend on if you have a dynamo or alternator on your engine. Always replace a fuse with the correct current rating.

If two are gone you probably have the alternator type and they are in parallel. I blew them once by shorting the alternator output. In this case your battery is not charged any more and that may explain why your fuel pump stopped.

 

[lmichael]

What is the difference between a "dynamo" and an "alternator". Honestly I've seen the terms used interchangeably so it's confusing

 

[Hugo Habicht]

What is the difference between a "dynamo" and an "alternator". Honestly I've seen the terms used interchangeably so it's confusing

A dynamo has permanent magnet exitation and requires external electronics to maintain voltage over speed and load.

An alternator (or generator) has a controlled exitation (typically through the rotor) to maintain voltage.

The latter has the advantage that the power that has to be controlled is much smaller than the generated power whereas the electronics of the former has to control the full power.

Attached a picture of the G1700/1800/1900 alternator/generator with integrated regulator electronics.

Second picture is regulator and rectifier mounted at the back. The dynamo has an external electronics.

 

[lmichael]

A dynamo has permanent magnet exitation and requires external electronics to maintain voltage over speed and load.

An alternator (or generator) has a controlled exitation (typically through the rotor) to maintain voltage.

The latter has the advantage that the power that has to be controlled is much smaller than the generated power whereas the electronics of the former has to control the full power.

Attached a picture of the G1700/1800/1900 alternator/generator with integrated regulator electronics.

Second picture is regulator and rectifier mounted at the back. The dynamo has an external electronics.

So this looks like what is on my G2160.
Oddly many years ago, (well actually not that long ago) nearly all vehicles had external regulators on their alternators. Even up until not long ago on a Chrysler product they had a SMEC (Single Module Engine Controller) which also contained the voltage regulator. I saw quite a few SMECs take out alternators and vice' verse'. I think it was GM that pioneered the internal regulator as I saw those on late 60s/early 70s Cadillacs (not sure if they were on other brands in GM as I was a Cadillac dealer tech back then) and I did not see any other cars in GM lineup.
But back then I overhauled A LOT of "generators" (we were not allowed to call them alternators because the output was in fact DC not AC as in Chrysler stuff) and IIRC Chrysler had trademarked "Alternator".

 

[Henro]

Hi,

are you sure you ran out of Diesel?

If the pump died the engine would stop the same way as if the tank is empty, no power, stuttering and then stopping. I do not think the engine runs without the pump.

Check the 10A fuse (cover under steering wheel), if that is ok check for voltage at the pump connector. Check between both connector pins while the pump is connected, could be a faulty ground connection too.

Get the pump working again, just turning on the ingnition for about 30 seconds will bleed the fuel system.

Kind regards,
Hugo

P.s.: do you have a work shop and operator manual?

While this generally may be the case, I have read over the years reports where tractors with lift pumps did actually run after a pump failure. I believe in those cases the level of fuel in the fuel tank was higher than the injector pump and gravity feed was working. Just a data point…

however if the tractor was operating in this condition and the fuel ran out, if it was designed to self prime after fuel ran out, that would not occur after adding fuel since the lift pump would not be able to do it job.

 

[GeoHorn]

A dynamo is like those little generators that ran off the sidewall of your bicycle-tires. It has an internal magnet to excite itself. It has such low output that very little (if any) regulation is required.

An alternator is a genuine AC-Generator….(much higher output)….it has an internal electro-magnet for excitation. A regulator is required (internal or external)

 

[lmichael]

A dynamo is like those little generators that ran off the sidewall of your bicycle-tires. It has an internal magnet to excite itself. It has such low output that very little (if any) regulation is required.

An alternator is a genuine AC-Generator….(much higher output)….it has an internal electro-magnet for excitation. A regulator is required (internal or external)

Ahh, OK we simply called those generators I never heard anyone refer to differences. Appreciate it

 

[GeoHorn]

Ahh, OK we simply called those generators I never heard anyone refer to differences. Appreciate it

Genuine generators are different .… For example, they have an electrically-excited “Field” and require an external regulator…..(although they Are able in most cases to self-excite with residual magnetism in the field-shoes….but also why they sometimes lose their polarity and require “flashing” for re-polariztion via a battery.)

 

[lmichael]

Genuine generators are different .… For example, they have an electrically-excited “Field” and require an external regulator…..(although they Are able in most cases to self-excite with residual magnetism in the field-shoes….but also why they sometimes lose their polarity and require “flashing” for re-polariztion via a battery.)

Oh believe me I am old enough to remember "flashing" a regulator or a generator. I just never heard of anything called a "dynamo"