I am considering a purchase of a 2016 Kubota L3301 but have concerns with the EPA Tier 4 compliant emissions system. As I recall there were issues with the early EPA emissions systems on Kubota's. Can anyone shed some advice on this - should I stay away from that?
Possible purchase of 2016 Kubota L3301
- Thread starter Jass
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I also posted this on the buying advice forum, so ignore if you already saw this.
I am considering a purchase of a 2016 Kubota L3301 but have concerns with the EPA Tier 4 compliant emissions system. As I recall there were issues with the early EPA emissions systems on Kubota's. Can anyone shed some advice on this - should I stay away from that?
I am considering a purchase of a 2016 Kubota L3301 but have concerns with the EPA Tier 4 compliant emissions system. As I recall there were issues with the early EPA emissions systems on Kubota's. Can anyone shed some advice on this - should I stay away from that?
The B3350 was the problem child. They tried to make a simplified emissions control system, which was different than every other tractor they make. It didn't work well. To their credit, they stood behind them and fixed them. But only that specific model has had those problems.
Plenty on here will tell you that any emissions systems at all will always be a problem. That hasn't been my experience. Ultimately, if you want to avoid emissions systems you need to buy a tractor under 26hp, if you need more than 26hp, then you'll get emissions systems. The L3301 is as good as any. The L3901 has the same engine tuned for more power - I'd be tempted to make that step if I was going to the L3301. If your application can use that extra HP.
Plenty on here will tell you that any emissions systems at all will always be a problem. That hasn't been my experience. Ultimately, if you want to avoid emissions systems you need to buy a tractor under 26hp, if you need more than 26hp, then you'll get emissions systems. The L3301 is as good as any. The L3901 has the same engine tuned for more power - I'd be tempted to make that step if I was going to the L3301. If your application can use that extra HP.
You are probably thinking of the reformer after treatment system used on the B3350. The reformer was a total failure and quickly scrapped in favor of more reliable sydtems.
The L3301 uses a Diesel Exhaust Catalyst (DOC) and Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) system instead. The DOC/DPF after treatment system has proven to be quite reliable. That said any emissions related failure is going to require dealer service and wont be cheap.
Dan
Or behind door number two .... scrap the DPF/EGR system and have more power and no regens for a lot less than what it would cost to have a dealer R&R. $2k is the going rate for ECU flash and it's simple enough to make up a turbo back exhaust.
A 2016 Kubota will have zero warranty of any kind so no risk there. Just my $0.02.
As a man with two new donor lungs no amount of cost savings would ever get me to convert my nice clean running L3901 to a dirty soot belching polluter. I sold my B7200 because the exhaust was so bad I quite literally could not operate it. EPA Tier 4 is a massive reduction in exhaust pollutants and one of the best things to happen to the environment in decades.
Dan
When you consider that the total contribution to atmospheric pollution via combustion from all farming in the US is less than 3%, the contribution from hobby tractors is not even a drop in the ocean. I consider the crap that's forced on our tractors to be a total smoke and mirrors disgrace and just one more example of not actually solving the problem, something that we see in this country time and time again. It's just one more example of the illusion of a solution to placate the clueless and easily distracted.
Oh yeah, don't ever visit Hawaii if you're concerned about your lungs. The vog will kill you.
Regardless, just presenting options to the OP. When I bought the MX and M I had already looked into options regarding the DPF/EGR system and I like options.
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Suffice it to say I dont share your opinion.
When the guy sitting in the seat contracts lung cancer he/she is not gking to be impressed by that 3% number. Particulate mattet in diesel exhaust is a human carcinogen and just like cigarette smoke inhaling it is bad Ju-Ju. The more we do to reduce operator exposure the better.
Dan
Then I guess my '02 F-250 is going to kill me eventually.
No DPF, no DEF, just a 5" Banks pipe off the turbo an out through a Banks exhaust. I can guarantee that my F-250 contributes way more crap into the atmosphere in a month than both my tractors will in a year.As for my tractors, I'm in a cab so don't even smell the exhaust let alone inhale particulates, thanks to the cabin filters.
I haven’t heard of any issues with the emissions system on either the L3301 and L3901 tractors. A good friend of mine has the L3301 and his dad a couple houses down, had a L3901. Both are great options. I’ve operated both tractors.
Are you trading/selling your L2501? If you’re looking for a bit more power, you can install a Turbo Kit on the L2501 which can get you up to 45HP/35PTO. Just a thought.
Mike
Yes, your smoke belching truck may wind up killing you. Cancer and interstitial lung diseases are not joking matters and a very large percentage of the population suffers needlessly becsuse we have failed to address the obvious contributors. Thankfully diesel exhaust's time has finally ckme.Then I guess my '02 F-250 is going to kill me eventually.
As for my tractors, I'm in a cab so don't even smell the exhaust let alone inhale particulates thanks to the cabin filters.
Dan
I don't have a DPF on my L2501. I decided I'd get by a bit less power. But, I've been bit by a fault DPF emissions system on a truck. It really stinks to go into limp mode when you try to go up a mountain. If I needed a high HP tractor, I'd go the DPF/DEF route. It seems like they've been fairly reliable. Fwiw, I don't think I've ever smelled my exhaust under way, but I've smelled cigarettes.
Lots of things cause cancer. Newer research implies diet is a big contributor for cancer. They still sell most of those foods. Any way ...
In any case, people modify emissions systems due to reliability issues. I think the problem is and we saw this with B3350, engineers have a hard time matching how people use their tractors compared to how they are really used. I'm not picking on tractors or Kubota though. Trucks have the same issues. I was watching an interview with Gale Banks the other day and he was explaining why they produce engines for the military etc. The main reason was reliability and the ability to use "any" diesel fuel the world over.
A little better job by engineers in the beginning and nobody would have bothered to find solutions to delete emissions on trucks/tractors. That's an engineering and govt issue. In Canada, they don't have a nation wide rule ... it's by province. There are real reasons to delete unfortunately.
Most DPF equipped tractors have proven reliable to date.
That said, a DPF has a limited life and will need replacement at some point. Eventually, the time will come when DPFs will start reaching end of life and expensive repairs will be needed.
I expect answers to similar questions will be much different in a few years than now.
BINGO.
Those who are actually serious about man made atmospheric pollution should speak with the Chinese, Indians, Russians, Africans, etc., etc., etc., rather than those of here in the US.
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I have a 2016 M7060. No problems whatsoever with the engine/emissions. It has a DPF and regenerates every so often but the only way I know it is going through a regeneration cycle is that a light comes on in the dash. I just keep on doing whatever I am doing and after a few minutes the light goes off.
The light is there to let you know it is going through a regen cycle, so you won't shut down the tractor while the regeneration is happening. Shutting the tractor down before the regen cycle is complete is not good; you need to keep the engine running at high rpm until the cycle is done.
As long as you operate the tractor according to the instructions in the owners manual you should have no problems. Main thing to remember is the instruction to not let the engine idle too long. Keep the rpms up!
The light is there to let you know it is going through a regen cycle, so you won't shut down the tractor while the regeneration is happening. Shutting the tractor down before the regen cycle is complete is not good; you need to keep the engine running at high rpm until the cycle is done.
As long as you operate the tractor according to the instructions in the owners manual you should have no problems. Main thing to remember is the instruction to not let the engine idle too long. Keep the rpms up!
Both my M9960 and GL6060 had the annoying habit of starting a regen after I had finished my work and was driving into the barn.
The B3350 did as well, and because shutting down or stalling the engine during a regen was more problematic in this case, I adopted the habit of hitting the Inhibit button 15 or 20 minutes before finishing a task.
Soon thereafter, I adopted the same habit when operating the 6060 and 9960 in order to avoid the annoying prospect of twiddling in the barn while the tractors ran unloaded at full throttle outside of the barn in order to finish a regen.
Annoying, indeed.
I miss the good old days.
You must be abusing your tractors so they are getting even with you!
Never had that happen - but then I've got only about 806 hours on mine so far. Guess the only bad experience I've had with the regen system was one day a year or so ago when I fired up the tractor on a bitter cold day. As soon as the engine fired up, the regen light came on - and then the blinking light to raise rpms. I had to raise the rpms to about 2300 before that blinking light went out and I hated to run the engine that hard when it hadn't had time to warm up.
This raises an interesting point. The tractor was at PM warning level 1, and had you let the engine warm up to normal operating temperature before raising rpm and starting the regen process, would the buzzer have started to sound every 5 seconds during warm up indicating that that tractor was now at PM warning level 2-1? The only difference between PM warning level 1 and PM warning level 2-1 is the buzzer sounding every 5 seconds.You must be abusing your tractors so they are getting even with you!
Never had that happen - but then I've got only about 806 hours on mine so far. Guess the only bad experience I've had with the regen system was one day a year or so ago when I fired up the tractor on a bitter cold day. As soon as the engine fired up, the regen light came on - and then the blinking light to raise rpms. I had to raise the rpms to about 2300 before that blinking light went out and I hated to run the engine that hard when it hadn't had time to warm up.
We have a 10yo+ l3301 used mostly on the forestry side of our place and after 10 years of use it has been faultless.
Regen's automatically every 20 - 25 hrs or so and its hard to even tell when it doing it other than a slight sound difference from under the hood.
No regret and would buy it again in a heartbeat.
Like others have said keep rpm's up (above 2100 rpm) and the thing purrs.
Regen's automatically every 20 - 25 hrs or so and its hard to even tell when it doing it other than a slight sound difference from under the hood.
No regret and would buy it again in a heartbeat.
Like others have said keep rpm's up (above 2100 rpm) and the thing purrs.