Speculative tractor upgrade - pondering

PaulL

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I've replied to lots of people on this forum. Newbies I guess. I'm not a newbie as many of you know, and you'd figure I know enough to recommend things to myself. But it's still nice to chew over options.

We've been living in Rotorua for about 10 years. We have about an acre of our own property that I mow, and about 5km of roadside I mow (out and back), plus some community land. My B2601 has been perfect for this - tasks it does are:
  • Mowing (probably 80% of my use). I mow my lawns, neighbours lawns, community land and roadside as noted. The MMM is convenient for this, easy to manoeuvre, and doesn't push the tractor around like a rear mower would. With a lot of roadside mowing I need something durable (the B has a more robust mower than the BX I had before), and width isn't critical because when mowing roadside you have to go up and back either way, there's only a few places that I need more than one pass
  • Loader work in the gardens
  • Running a chipper on the PTO
  • Fertiliser spreading (cheap Chinesium electric spreader), spraying the lawn and pavers etc (cheap Chinesium boom sprayer with a hand wand as well)
  • Pulling the boat in and out of the ramp (we live on a lake)
  • With pallet forks on the front, moving the diesel tank into and out of the trailer for filling heating oil
We're contemplating a move south, near Queenstown/Wanaka. Close to snow ski fields - after ten years living near my hobbies (water skiing, wakeboarding, mountain biking) we're going to move to be closer to my better half's hobbies (snow skiing, still reasonable mountain biking, there are lakes for water skiing but a lot colder).

Because we live on a lake in Rotorua, we have lake reserve between us and the lake itself. That means the public can walk through - it's not super frequent, but it means we can't leave the dogs outside unsupervised - our property isn't fenced because that would sort of destroy the point of living on a lake. In Wanaka we're looking at 7 hectares / 17 acres of land, it'd be genuinely ours and fenced, with nobody sticking their nose in our business (beyond the usual local bureaucrats). It's a reasonably sparse environment, the land is pretty bare, and while it grows grass, it's an arid area, so it's not thick and lush like the grass we get in the aptly named "Bay of Plenty" that we currently live in.

The property has a 4 bay pole shed, and a temporary house. We'll build a house over the next two years. It has a gravel driveway, about 150 metres/yards. Enough water to irrigate if I wanted to - 13,000L per day. So we could make the grass reasonably lush in summer, it'd still be sparse in winter, too cold to grow much.

So, my mind is racing. This whole exercise will be expensive, and it's initiated by my better half. So if the move necessitated some new machinery, she could hardly complain, right? (Actually, she doesn't complain when I buy machinery, but it's what I tell myself).

There are some options here:
  1. Stick with my B2601. It's actually big enough for anything I'd do on the new property. It might be a bit slower to do some things, but I'm unlikely to mow the whole thing, I'll probably let a neighbour graze it with sheep. A mob of sheep through once a month will keep it looking tidy, and I'll probably get a couple of lambs a year in return. Most other things, the B can do, the main new task will be maintaining the driveway
  2. While I like my B2601, it's actually a bit heavy for mowing on the home. I slowly build up ruts in the lawn. Mum recently bought a relatively inexpensive rider, and it's excellent. I could supplement with a rideon for the house block for not much money - circa NZ$5,000. Not a diesel, but I'd survive. The boat and the power tools need fuel supply anyway, so I have it around.
  3. I'll need to maintain the driveway. A back blade is easiest, it's not a big driveway. But a land plane might be better. They're not common in NZ, but there's a couple land pride models available.
  4. I'll likely have some trenching, and quite a bit of planting. The soil is a bit stony, so digging will be hard. I could put a backhoe on the B2601. Looks like that'd be about NZ$15,000, although nobody actually publishes prices online so I'd need to ask a dealer and price it up. I've never had need for a backhoe, but always kind of wanted one. The backhoe on a B2601 is limited, but it would sure beat a shovel.
  5. My trailer is a single axle tipper. It's great for loading the tractor. It sucks for tipping stuff off it. I could move to a tandem hydraulic tipper, that's about NZ$10,000. I think this would be a good upgrade, we'll be bringing in a lot of mulch and probably moving around dirt, a proper tipper would make that a lot easier. Not essential, but if I wait for a while before getting it, I'll be wishing I'd done it earlier, most of the work is up front.
  6. A backhoe on a B2601 kind of sucks. I can get a Takeuchi 1.6t mini-excavator with about 3,500 hours on it for around NZ$25,000. And then I'd still have the tractor to pull the trailer that I'm filling with the mini-ex. This setup would be massively better. For the small amount of digging I need to do. I could follow my own advice and rent one when I need one, but owning a digger would be cool.
  7. A bigger tractor. If I don't keep on top of the grass in summer I'll need to mow (although the better half thinks we could let a neighbour make hay....but I don't like grass that long). My brother in law has an old 3 spindle finish mower that would be ideal, but I'd need a bigger tractor to run it. He has a vintage Massey Ferguson diesel that he pulls it with, so I could get a second tractor. Or I could get a bigger tractor. In NZ we don't have the emissions that America has. Our models are an L3200 or L3800. D1503 or D1803, non turbo, no DPF or emissions controls. Or I could get a Grand-L, we get L3540, L4240, L5740. None of these are cheap unfortunately. Again no online pricing, but I'd be north of NZ$50,000 I think for any of them, the Grand-L quite a bit north.
So, indulge me. What should I do? I'm notoriously tight fisted with money, so you might reasonably guess that options 1 or 2 are going to fly, and probably 3. Options 5 and 6 are tempting. But that probably means skipping option 7, otherwise I'm spending nearly $100K on new equipment.
 
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Runs With Scissors

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I am “tight fisted” when it comes to certain things. You would have to use a “crowbar" to pry the money out of my "cold dead hands” for a Starbucks Mocha- Loco-Capuchino-Latte thingy…..……I drink the cheapest black coffee I can find….

However I can’t pull the moeny out of my pockets fast enough for a CNC Plasma cutter/tractor/backhoe/compressor/ welder/lathe….etc.

So with that being said……..


No question in my mind, as much as I like/love my backhoe, I think I would opt for option 6.

Not only would a Mini-X be “way cool” just to have, they are much more efficient than the BH. (I rented one, pre-tractor and BH77)

I am also unsure of how easy it will be to find and install a BH for your machine? I mean, can you just order one up from the dealer?…..Or are they plentiful on the "used market” in your area?


I will bet that once you have a Mini-X you will “find” plenty of other uses for it. Much like I do for my BH.

If not, you can just sell it (the mini-X) and not be out too much/any money.
 
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GrumpyFarmer

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Good day.

IMO, you need decide if you want different machine (or an extra and why) or not. The reason doesn’t matter and it doesn’t have to come down to a precise cost analysis, unless you want it to. Then consider what tasks you want to do vs hiring out or bartering to have done.

I think if moving from a smaller lot to a little more acreage the thing that might be hard to imagine is the size scope and frequency of tasks. From storm damage (if there are trees) to maintenance of the grounds and how long the tasks take. If really planning to mow all that with a B, at least do the math for some Ss and Gs to make sure the annual time on the machine is understood.

id probably be trying to imagine 5 or 10 year plan. What planning to do with the new place in the future? If need to load/unload feed or move totes of water, that will start to make some decisions for you.

is there a need to make a decision before you buy/move the new place? May want to live there a year or two until you can decide what you may really need?

Or, watch Clarkson Farm and let Jeremy help you size a machine.😉

place sounds great. Good luck. 👍
 
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PoTreeBoy

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I agree with @GrumpyFarmer, I think. Start with what you already have and see what you end up needing. You didn't mention snow handling, is a blower or plow in the picture?
 
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chim

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It would be nice to know what the ground is like. You mentioned ruts from mowing. The soil could be different at the new place. The L4240 IS my lawn mower here.
 
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PaulL

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Lots of good thoughts. Thanks crew.

Answers and thoughts:
  • The soil is much harder, with a fair amount of stone in it. It has a (disused) irrigation ditch along one edge, and quite a lot of stone (known as Otago schist). I hear ditch and stone, and immediately think "dry stack stone bridge". So that may be a hobby. I don't think it would rut as much. But a rideon would definitely free up tractor options, I probably wouldn't want to mow the house lot with a large machine with 3pt mower
  • Mum has a Takeuchi 1.6t from before Dad died. She doesn't really drive it herself, mostly my brother or I drive it when visiting. We did quite a bit of landscaping around one of her dams with it in recent years. But I don't think she has any use for it at the moment, and is unlikely to sell it. I think I'll ask her what she's doing with it, she might be happy for me to take it. It'd be a pity to buy another if she then said "but I had one I wasn't using". I also vaguely wonder if I could swap my trailer for hers - she has the exact hydraulic tipper I'd want. She does use the trailer, but she's about to sell the tow vehicle, so she'd again only use it when I'm there or my brother. Problem is that she's a 12 hour drive + 3 hour ferry crossing away from the new property (currently 4 hours). So visits will likely be by air in future, it'd be hard to bring the digger and trailer back for a visit. As an aside, I also realised overnight that she has a a whole lot of fencing and farming gear she doesn't use any more (farm is leased out to a local farmer). She keeps asking me if I want any of it. Seems like I might now.
  • I can get a BH for my machine. It's reasonably new, still a current model. I'd have to buy a brand new backhoe - they're like hen's teeth used. But it'd bolt straight up.
  • No snow on the ground, or certainly not enough to buy a plow or blower for - there might be very occasional falls that wouldn't stay around more than a couple hours.
  • Overnight, a second tractor started to sound attractive to me. My brother in law has a Massey Ferguson 135. 45HP diesel. 2wd, but quite a bit bigger. I could run a good sized mower, and do a lot, with one of those. They're quite popular and people invest time and money in reconditioning them. And then sell them for not that much money. Looks like I could get one in good condition for $5-10K. For example https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketp...estry/tractors/up-to-50-hp/listing/5493525251 or https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketp...estry/tractors/up-to-50-hp/listing/5500749139. I could road trip to pretty much anywhere in NZ to pick one up, and they're a common machine. There's also a 245 around, 50HP and power steering. https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketp...estry/tractors/up-to-50-hp/listing/5242029933. Mum has an old Fergie TEA 20 - petrol 16hp from about 1960 - that she's going to sell. I don't think I want that though.
I think the advice to wait until I get there is good. And I should chat to Mum about what she has and what she still wants. If I bought a new trailer, and took her mini-ex, and over time got a well maintained MF135, I'd be golden.
 
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NorthwoodsLife

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So, if I read that right.... your mom has a excavator she isn't using? There you go. Make a deal. Bobs your uncle.

I have a business friend who bought a chinese mini ex used for 2 grand US. He loves it. I think they are 6 grand US brand new.

Besides the fact that when he was driving it off of the trailer the first time it pitched forward and he fell forward out of the seat and through the glass cab.
 
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jimh406

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Buy more implements and rent heavy equipment when needed. You can usually do things faster with a bigger/more powerful tractor. However, they are a lot more expensive. If money is no object, buy your dream tractor with implements. Fwiw, you can use a front mount snow blower on a tractor with midPTO. Otherwise, you have to go to the alternatives.

I find my tractor sits most of the time and can do everything I've wanted it to do. I'm sure I'd love a MX with Cab, but the difference in price was enough to pay for all of my implements with money left over. I've had it several years, and it still works fine.
 
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GrumpyFarmer

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Lots of good thoughts. Thanks crew.

Answers and thoughts:
  • The soil is much harder, with a fair amount of stone in it. It has a (disused) irrigation ditch along one edge, and quite a lot of stone (known as Otago schist). I hear ditch and stone, and immediately think "dry stack stone bridge". So that may be a hobby. I don't think it would rut as much. But a rideon would definitely free up tractor options, I probably wouldn't want to mow the house lot with a large machine with 3pt mower
  • Mum has a Takeuchi 1.6t from before Dad died. She doesn't really drive it herself, mostly my brother or I drive it when visiting. We did quite a bit of landscaping around one of her dams with it in recent years. But I don't think she has any use for it at the moment, and is unlikely to sell it. I think I'll ask her what she's doing with it, she might be happy for me to take it. It'd be a pity to buy another if she then said "but I had one I wasn't using". I also vaguely wonder if I could swap my trailer for hers - she has the exact hydraulic tipper I'd want. She does use the trailer, but she's about to sell the tow vehicle, so she'd again only use it when I'm there or my brother. Problem is that she's a 12 hour drive + 3 hour ferry crossing away from the new property (currently 4 hours). So visits will likely be by air in future, it'd be hard to bring the digger and trailer back for a visit. As an aside, I also realised overnight that she has a a whole lot of fencing and farming gear she doesn't use any more (farm is leased out to a local farmer). She keeps asking me if I want any of it. Seems like I might now.
  • I can get a BH for my machine. It's reasonably new, still a current model. I'd have to buy a brand new backhoe - they're like hen's teeth used. But it'd bolt straight up.
  • No snow on the ground, or certainly not enough to buy a plow or blower for - there might be very occasional falls that wouldn't stay around more than a couple hours.
  • Overnight, a second tractor started to sound attractive to me. My brother in law has a Massey Ferguson 135. 45HP diesel. 2wd, but quite a bit bigger. I could run a good sized mower, and do a lot, with one of those. They're quite popular and people invest time and money in reconditioning them. And then sell them for not that much money. Looks like I could get one in good condition for $5-10K. For example https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketp...estry/tractors/up-to-50-hp/listing/5493525251 or https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketp...estry/tractors/up-to-50-hp/listing/5500749139. I could road trip to pretty much anywhere in NZ to pick one up, and they're a common machine. There's also a 245 around, 50HP and power steering. https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketp...estry/tractors/up-to-50-hp/listing/5242029933. Mum has an old Fergie TEA 20 - petrol 16hp from about 1960 - that she's going to sell. I don't think I want that though.
I think the advice to wait until I get there is good. And I should chat to Mum about what she has and what she still wants. If I bought a new trailer, and took her mini-ex, and over time got a well maintained MF135, I'd be golden.
With 17 acres I think it quite possible you may end up with more than 1 machine. Personally I don’t think I would be w/o a BX or B sized machine…they are very handy and do a a lot of places a larger machine won’t. (If you will have care to take around house and buildings I think a B with a loader is like a diesel powered wheelbarrow).

to me the greater risk would be buying before have the property and imagination of future use…needs may change when you realize the potential of 17acres. Sure you can sell a machine and get something else…but maybe a loss if that matters.

to me really depends on what you plan to do with the place, or if you really want a larger machine…nothing wrong with either. You earned the money spend as you see fit. Share some pics👍
 
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JohnDB

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Lots of good thoughts. Thanks crew.

...
I think the advice to wait until I get there is good. And I should chat to Mum about what she has and what she still wants. If I bought a new trailer, and took her mini-ex, and over time got a well maintained MF135, I'd be golden.
If you do go the used tractor option, think about some of the Kubota models that might suit. If using a front end loader you really need 4wd, and the Kubota ones have a better turning circle than most, older ones are basic and easy to maintain, good parts support either via dealer or wreckers. Down south where you are going the climate keeps rust at bay, I've seen some very nice offerings on Trade Me. (If you go 4wd Kubota, in addition to the usual things to check, definitely pull the prop shaft cover back to check the front axle input and prop shaft coupling). Plus orange looks heaps better than red.
 

PaulL

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B2601
Jul 17, 2017
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If you do go the used tractor option, think about some of the Kubota models that might suit. If using a front end loader you really need 4wd, and the Kubota ones have a better turning circle than most, older ones are basic and easy to maintain, good parts support either via dealer or wreckers. Down south where you are going the climate keeps rust at bay, I've seen some very nice offerings on Trade Me. (If you go 4wd Kubota, in addition to the usual things to check, definitely pull the prop shaft cover back to check the front axle input and prop shaft coupling). Plus orange looks heaps better than red.
If I was replacing the B2601, I'd definitely go Kubota. But if I'm keeping the B2601 as a loader tractor, and just buying a vintage tractor to run a mower, then I don't think I can get anything good in orange for $5-10K. And I really like the look and operation of a MF135 - I've always been jealous of my brother-in-law's. I wouldn't touch a new MF, but the old ones are classics.
 
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jyoutz

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If I was replacing the B2601, I'd definitely go Kubota. But if I'm keeping the B2601 as a loader tractor, and just buying a vintage tractor to run a mower, then I don't think I can get anything good in orange for $5-10K. And I really like the look and operation of a MF135 - I've always been jealous of my brother-in-law's. I wouldn't touch a new MF, but the old ones are classics.
From my own experience of owning a small JD tractor with loader (very similar size to your B), when I moved to my current property of 20 acres I found the tractor to be too small for my tasks. I would recommend that you consider trading the B for a larger machine and buying a mower for lawn maintenance. Rent a mini x when you need to dig. My 2 cents.
 

D2Cat

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PaulL, You mention a lot of variables. Boil all the excitement of moving and new tools out of the equation and I'd wait until I'm located there and after a short time you'll see what will be best.

I'd have a set down meeting with mum and make sure she understands your plan. Then see if she wants to sell some of her equipment. She may not be too excited about releasing the items to you because it would eliminate the use for your brother, so there's that obstacle.

An older tractor for a field mower is an inexpensive solution. Those tractors are heavy and just keep on going. The disadvantage of the older tractors are you are now addicted to HST. Those gearboxes are fine out in the open field, but short runs requiring shifting will make you age quicker!

Bottom line, keep your current tractor and grow into what you need.
 
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PaulL

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PaulL, You mention a lot of variables. Boil all the excitement of moving and new tools out of the equation and I'd wait until I'm located there and after a short time you'll see what will be best.

I'd have a set down meeting with mum and make sure she understands your plan. Then see if she wants to sell some of her equipment. She may not be too excited about releasing the items to you because it would eliminate the use for your brother, so there's that obstacle.

An older tractor for a field mower is an inexpensive solution. Those tractors are heavy and just keep on going. The disadvantage of the older tractors are you are now addicted to HST. Those gearboxes are fine out in the open field, but short runs requiring shifting will make you age quicker!

Bottom line, keep your current tractor and grow into what you need.
Thanks @D2Cat. I talked to Mum yesterday, to ask about some fencing gear I know she has and doesn't want - when I visit she keeps walking me through the farm sheds and asking me if I want any of it. She's at that age where she imagines she's leaving a problem for someone when she passes, so she wants to get rid of stuff that she doesn't need. Anyway, I said a bunch of the stuff she's hoarded (not really) I might now have use for. First thing she said was "do you need a digger". My family's not hard with this stuff. My brother has no use for a digger, he lives in town. He can drive it at my place as easily as he can drive it at Mum's. It's more about whether she still wants it - if she has something she needs it for and I have it then it makes a problem for her - there's a lot of things she can't lift on her own any more.

Her new guy is a local farmer, he has a slightly larger Bobcat digger he just bought. He'd happily come and do whatever she needs if she asked. She hasn't yet worked out that guys like doing stuff for their ladies (at least for the first 20 years or so, Dad wasn't so interested after 50 years....), so she feels like she's putting him out when she asks for stuff.

Yes, an older tractor will be gear drive. But I drive Mum's TEA Fergie when I visit, it's not that I don't know how. As you say, for mowing it's not really an issue, especially if I don't really care how tidy the mowing is - I can just do a couple circles round the outside first to make really big headlands, then I won't have to slow down on the corners. Not clear yet that I'll need to mow, but I'd really like a MF135. Turns out the brother in law has a MF148, which has about 1HP more, but has power steering. And he has multi-power, which sounds like a problematic piece of kit that I really don't need. Lots of toys, and as we all know, he who dies with the most toys wins.....
 
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ItBmine

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Depends on how much you want to spend. I play and maintain on 21 acres total with my B2620 (old version of your B2601)
Does everything, only time it lacks is there has been a few occasions where more lifting capacity on the forks would have been nice.
On the plus side, fluid changes, tires, etc are all cheaper to do than a bigger tractor. And the tires are easy for on man to lift and handle by yourself.
As for the backhoe, mine has come in handy, it sure beats shovelling. But I should have took that money and put it towards a mini-ex. These tractors are light and there is not much reach. So you spend more time repositioning than digging.
But that was back before the new covid pricing of everything. I could have got a new Kubota mini-ex for 20 to 30 thousand more (plus the money spent on the backhoe) and had a nice 3 ton machine that would out dig the backhoe by a huge margin. But I missed that window now, as everything is ridiculously priced today.
 
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Shawn T. W

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I have 16 acres, and my SCUT TLB does everything I need ... However I just bought a large CUT - a 2005 Kubota L5030 -

IMG_20250723_160643342.jpg


To pull a 8' finish mower I don't have yet, for COMFORT, twice the sized tires make mowing 14 acres much more comfortable than the tiny tires on the SCUT, and the Cab/AC is nice too!

It's pretty much an very long all day project to mow everything in one day with the SCUT and the 5' brush hog I have now, while it gets it done, the CUT can do it almost twice as fast, as I mow at 3.5 MPH with the SCUT, as it's just too rough on the bumpy fields, the CUT I mow at about 6 MPH . . . AND I'm not shook to death sore at the end of the day ...

I too would wait and see what you end up needing after living there for a year ... Obviously if you need to help your mum with liquidation of some equipment, it only makes sense to get it while it's there ... And if later you think you would be better served with something else, you got trade material!

ETA: While your "B" will do the job, it just may take a bit longer than a bigger tractor ...
 
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JohnDB

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...Turns out the brother in law has a MF148, which has about 1HP more, but has power steering. And he has multi-power, which sounds like a problematic piece of kit that I really don't need. ...

Agreed, MF multi-power definitely to be avoided. Neighbour has it on his MF135. Weird system that allows free-wheeling (= no engine braking) in low? range.