L3650 Loader Trouble When Lowering

[roofarm]

Hello! I'm new to the forum. I'm a first time tractor owner, and here's my situation I'm hoping for advice with. I have an L3650. I've been using it without issues for a couple months, but after a few days of cutting hay my hydraulic system started having some problems.

My bucket loader will raise, curl forward, and curl back all fine. But when i try to lower it, it doesn't lower smoothly and sometimes won't lower at all. With a little bit of cajoling, it'll stutter then lower. if i activate the curling back and lowering at the same time, it'll briefly lower smoothly to the ground. If i turn off the tractor engine, the bucket will lower smoothly with no issue.

I'm told that this could be related to an obstructed return valve somewhere in the hydraulic system. I disconnected and reconnected my quick disconnects, and i replaced the 4 hoses closest to the hydraulic assembly underneath my control lever. Replacing those hoses improved performance but did not resolve the problem completely.

What should be my next diagnostic steps? does anyone have experience with this?

thanks, i look forward to contributing to this forum as i learn more. I'm trying to do as much of my own repairs and maintenance as possible, but the learning curve is tough to overcome alone.

Best,
Roo (she/her)

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hello! I'm new to the forum. I'm a first time tractor owner, and here's my situation I'm hoping for advice with. I have an L3650. I've been using it without issues for a couple months, but after a few days of cutting hay my hydraulic system started having some problems.

My bucket loader will raise, curl forward, and curl back all fine. But when i try to lower it, it doesn't lower smoothly and sometimes won't lower at all. With a little bit of cajoling, it'll stutter then lower. if i activate the curling back and lowering at the same time, it'll briefly lower smoothly to the ground. If i turn off the tractor engine, the bucket will lower smoothly with no issue.

I'm told that this could be related to an obstructed return valve somewhere in the hydraulic system. I disconnected and reconnected my quick disconnects, and i replaced the 4 hoses closest to the hydraulic assembly underneath my control lever. Replacing those hoses improved performance but did not resolve the problem completely.

What should be my next diagnostic steps? does anyone have experience with this?

thanks, i look forward to contributing to this forum as i learn more. I'm trying to do as much of my own repairs and maintenance as possible, but the learning curve is tough to overcome alone.

Best,
Roo (she/her)

Engine on or iff shoild not not matter.

Classic symptoms of an obstruction in the power beyond circuit.

Raise loader to about 3 feet and try to lower by moving joystick to float position..

Dan

 

[roofarm]

Engine on or iff shoild not not matter.

Classic symptoms of an obstruction in the power beyond circuit.

Raise loader to about 3 feet and try to lower by moving joystick to float position..

Dan

thank you for the reply!! if i look in the manual for the "power beyond circuit" will i find the specific location of that circuit on the tractor?

Also my bucket does not specifically have a float position... just up and down.

interesting that on or off it shouldn't matter, seems odd in that case that it behaves differently when the engine is off. i will still try to raise it 3ft them lower it!

 

[TheOldHokie]

thank you for the reply!! if i look in the manual for the "power beyond circuit" will i find the specific location of that circuit on the tractor?

my bucket does not specifically have a float position... just up and down.

interesting that on or off it shouldn't matter, seems odd in that case that it behaves differently when the engine is off. i will still try to raise it 3ft them lower it!

You wont find anything about power beyond in your manusl.

Yes I find it odd the beavior is different with engune off. Keep the position control lever in the full down position when testing the loader.

Every Kubota loader I have ever seen has a float position. What is the make and model of your loader?

Dan

 

[roofarm]

You wont find anything about power beyond in your manusl.

Yes I find it odd the beavior is different with engune off. Keep the position control lever in the full down position when testing the loader.

Every Kubota loader I have ever seen has a float position. What is the make and model of your loader?

Dan

Loader is model BF500! The closest thing to "Float" i can see on my control lever is the center, "N" position which i presume is Neutral, and also not the same as float. The controls show Up, Down, Curl Back, Dump, Dump & Up, Dump & Down, and one more in the upper left that i can't read because it has been scratched off.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Loader is model BF500! The closest thing to "Float" i can see on my control lever is the center, "N" position which i presume is Neutral, and also not the same as float. The controls show Up, Down, Curl Back, Dump, Dump & Up, Dump & Down, and one more in the upper left that i can't read because it has been

Hmmm. Thats an oldie and I dont know the details of thst valve. Even so I would expect a float position. If you move the joystick to full lower and push hard does it slip into another position?

I dont want to get distracted by this but its important to understand how the lower circuit works if we cc are going to analyze the symptoms.

Dan

 

[roofarm]

Hmmm. Thats an oldie and I dont know the details of thst valve. Even so I would expect a float position. If you move the joystick to full lower and push hard does it slip into another position?

I dont want to get distracted by this but its important to understand how the lower circuit works if we cc are going to analyze the symptoms.

Dan

Hi! I opened up my manual to double check, and yes! just pushing beyond the down should trigger Float. that part of the controls sticker must also have worn off.

 

[chim]

Raise the loader a couple feet. Push the joystick forward and when you hit what feels like the stop, push with more force. If the float position hasn't been used, it may take a good shove. Just don't get crazy. Crazy is bracing yourself against the ROPS and using both feet

 

[roofarm]

I raised it and triggered the Float, and it sunk just fine! so it just seems like direct down pressure isn't working, but float is.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hi! I opened up my manual to double check, and yes! just pushing beyond the down should trigger Float. that part of the controls sticker must also have worn off.

Whew! OK, back on track.

See if it lowers OK in the float position. If so the problem is either one of the couplers or something down stream.

I assume the 3pt is working OK?

Any loader third function, remote valves, or backhoe?

 

[roofarm]

Whew! OK, back on track.

See if it lowers OK in the float position. If so the problem is either one of the couplers or something down stream.

I assume the 3pt is working OK?

Any loader third function, remote valves, or backhoe?

It lowers well using float! my 3pt hitch goes up and down no problem.

i think i have a third function setup, but it isn't hooked up to anything, just a closed loop via a QD joint. i only use that with my plow to control Left/Right pivot, and i don't have my plow hooked up. that system has a separate joystick control from the main bucket controls.

i have a backhoe that is PTO powered, and it isn't hooked up right now since I've been cutting hay.

 

[TheOldHokie]

It lowers well using float! my 3pt hitch goes up and down no problem.

i think i have a third function setup, but it isn't hooked up to anything, just a closed loop via a QD joint. i only use that with my plow to control Left/Right pivot, and i don't have my plow hooked up. that system has a separate joystick control from the main bucket controls.

i have a backhoe that is PTO powered, and it isn't hooked up right now since I've been cutting hay.

Bingo! What and where is this closed loop connection?

Dan

 

[roofarm]

Bingo! What and where is this closed loop connection?

Dan

Photos attached!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Photos attached!

Excellent. Make sure tgat auxuluary vakve is fully in neutral and ghe couplers are securely latched.

The fact your 3pt is working still bothers me. Make sure the position control lever is full down abd draft control if present is disengaged.

 

[roofarm]

Excellent. Make sure tgat auxuluary vakve is fully in neutral and ghe couplers are securely latched.

The fact your 3pt is working still bothers me. Make sure the position control lever is full down abd draft control if present is disengaged.

Interesting!! Lowering my 3pt hitch completely to the bottom allowed downward pressure to work again! I didn't know to check for that! Thank you all so much!

Is there anything more i need to worry about, or does it seem everything is working as intended now?

The part of the story i didn't tell, is that before all this the oil sealing gasket in my hydraulic pump blew out and drained all my transdraulic fluid into my engine oil, then after that was repaired one of my hydraulic hoses popped (hence why i replaced several of them). so i presumed all the issues i asked about here were somehow connected to that.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Interesting!! Lowering my 3pt hitch completely to the bottom allowed downward pressure to work again! I didn't know to check for that! Thank you all so much!

Is there anything more i need to worry about, or does it seem everything is working as intended now?

The part of the story i didn't tell, is that before all this the oil sealing gasket in my hydraulic pump blew out and drained all my transdraulic fluid into my engine oil, then after that was repaired one of my hydraulic hoses popped (hence why i replaced several of them). so i presumed all the issues i asked about here were somehow connected to that.

I thought we covered 3pt first thing. Oh well.

Your 3pt lift needs adjustment. There is a feedback linkage that automagically kicks the position control valve into neutral when the lift arms reach top of travel. If it does not do that the pump is deadheaded at full system pressure and bad things like your loader and seal problem can happen. The adjustment procedure is simple and should be in thd owners manual.

See how easy that was

 

[Russell King]

Can you really raise kangaROOs in Vermont?

Sorry to sidetrack the conversation and I’ll leave it to @TheOldHokie to explain why the 3PH effects your FEL

 

[roofarm]

I thought we covered 3pt first thing. Oh well.

Your 3pt lift needs adjustment. There is a feedback linkage that automagically kicks the position control valve into neutral when the lift arms reach top of travel. If it does not do that the pump is deadheaded at full system pressure and bad things like your loader and seal problem can happen. The adjustment procedure is simple and should be in thd owners manual.

See how easy that was

I can't find an adjustment procedure like this in my manual.... is there a specific term i should be looking for? is the tractor safe to operate without this adjustment if i keep the 3pt out of its highest position?

 

[Russell King]

You may read this thread and get the information you need or show that Kubota calls it control linkage. See post 7, 11 and 13 for details.

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I’m looking to test relief valve and pressure on my L2850 with attached BF500 FEL. I’ve searched the old threads I could find, but have questions: -could I insert a 3000psi test gauge into the quick disconnect between the front hydraulic block and the loader control valve body by using quick...

www.orangetractortalks.com

You can download the WSM at this site. They like to get a donation to help them pay for storage costs.

Index of Kubotabooks/Tractor Owners Manuals/

Edit: corrected first link

 

[roofarm]

You may read this thread and get the information you need or show that Kubota calls it control linkage. See post 7, 11 and 13 for details.

Index of Kubotabooks/Tractor Owners Manuals/

You can download the WSM at this site. They like to get a donation to help them pay for storage costs.

Index of Kubotabooks/Tractor Owners Manuals/

This workshop manual is such a valuable asset! And what a wonderful directory! thank you for the link!

I so notice that you linked the manual directory twice, probably accidentally. I'm very interested in the forum post you mentioned if you wouldn't mind resharing that link!