L345 Cold Blooded

[kjrobinson]

I went to start my 345 tonight and couldn't get it going, the indicator spring for the glow plugs heated up but when trying to start it would get close but not quite. Would this be a glow plug issue, maybe wore out, do they wear out? Thanks for the help.

 

[Russell King]

Yes they do burn out.

You can measure the ohms of them by disconnecting them but if you look at the price ($10–$12 each) you might just want to replace them. I replaced the indicator also since it was cheap also.

Just check that you are actually getting around 12 volts (to ground) on the glow plug wires before you decide what to do. It will actually be 10 to 12 volts since the indicator is a resistor that drops the voltage down from battery level.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

DO NOT use starting fluid, No matter who says to use it ok to use it.

Kubota engines do not hold up to even a one time use of starting fluid.

Yes test and replace the glow plugs that are bad.

If your going to be doing a lot of winter use consider putting a block heater in it.
About an hour of heating and it will start way easier!

If you need it started bad now, use a hair dryer set on high blowing into the intake, yes you can do it via the air filter opening.

 

[Oleracer]

DO NOT use starting fluid, No matter who says to use it ok to use it.

Kubota engines do not hold up to even a one time use of starting fluid.

Yes test and replace the glow plugs that are bad.

If your going to be doing a lot of winter use consider putting a block heater in it.
About an hour of heating and it will start way easier!

If you need it started bad now, use a hair dryer set on high blowing into the intake, yes you can do it via the air filter opening.

Explain why they dont hold up using either? Having had Kubota motors in many different configurations and equipment i am interested.
I do understand somebody using a half of a can will rattle the life out of anything .

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I think it's the design of the combustion cylinder. there's a small 'pocket' before the cylinder. I'm thinking this pocket 'amplifies' the 'ether effect' and kepow....now you need a new engine.
Also you're NOT supposed to use ether and glowplugs at the same time. That's also a BIG kepow..

I'm sure someone can explain it all but the bottom line is NEVER,EVER use ether on a Kubota engine.

Since glow plugs draw about 10 amps each inspect/clean/replace bad battery cables and be sure battery is good.

If you install a block heater, consider a 'battery warming blanket' as well. It'll keep the battery warm enough to supply LOTS of amps, that are need to power BOTH starter AND glowplugs.

 

[D2Cat]

I never use ether on a Kubota engine, but I have used it on older tractors.

Some advise, don't ever spray the product into the intake system and then turn the engine over to start it. Have the engine spinning over trying to start and then small spurt into the air intake area. Let the engine draw in the vapor so it gets distributed across all pistons. Don't under any circumstances keep spraying until the engine starts.

 

[kjrobinson]

I never use ether on a Kubota engine, but I have used it on older tractors.

Some advise, don't ever spray the product into the intake system and then turn the engine over to start it. Have the engine spinning over trying to start and then small spurt into the air intake area. Let the engine draw in the vapor so it gets distributed across all pistons. Don't under any circumstances keep spraying until the engine starts.

Yes they do burn out.

You can measure the ohms of them by disconnecting them but if you look at the price ($10–$12 each) you might just want to replace them. I replaced the indicator also since it was cheap also.

Just check that you are actually getting around 12 volts (to ground) on the glow plug wires before you decide what to do. It will actually be 10 to 12 volts since the indicator is a resistor that drops the voltage down from battery level.

Thanks for the info, are the glow plugs specific to the make and model of the tractor, can you get them from most any auto store.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

#110 seems to be the glow plug, you need 4, about $90 CDN each.
if you disconnect them, you can measure each one on low ohms. Should be about 1 ohm (WSM will say...)
if ZERO...it's shorted ( unlikely though...)
if NOTHING..it's open ( won't heat up), BAD, needs to be replaced.

If only one is bad, engine might start though take longer;when 2 are bad, might not start.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

A good auto parts store will have these,
NGK (6926) Y106V Glow Plug

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Explain why they dont hold up using either? Having had Kubota motors in many different configurations and equipment i am interested.
I do understand somebody using a half of a can will rattle the life out of anything .

1: Kubota engines are ultra high compression and they are not designed for any starting aid.
The detonation will break pistons, break rings and lands, bend rods.

2: The glow plug system is designed to preheat the plugs and then also heat the plugs while cranking this causing the ether to ignite at the wrong time.

 

[Oleracer]

I never use ether on a Kubota engine, but I have used it on older tractors.

Some advise, don't ever spray the product into the intake system and then turn the engine over to start it. Have the engine spinning over trying to start and then small spurt into the air intake area. Let the engine draw in the vapor so it gets distributed across all pistons. Don't under any circumstances keep spraying until the engine starts.

Exactly…. Most newer owners dont understand how either works

 

[Oleracer]

1: Kubota engines are ultra high compression and they are not designed for any starting aid.
The detonation will break pistons, break rings and lands, bend rods.

2: The glow plug system is designed to preheat the plugs and then also heat the plugs while cranking this causing the ether to ignite at the wrong time.

Ok well diesel engines are high compression… most much higher than kubota. In all my time working on cat ..cummins… Detroit… Kubota… ford… gm diesels i have never seen bent rods, broken pistons or much other damage from occasional use of either. Especially the new either. Its not even that great for seating tire beads anymore.
Obviously you dont use the glow plugs
Most damage i have seen is why people use either to start already worn out engines. But a blanket statement youll blow up the motor is just foolish. Yep its a crutch but we have used it on many Kubota engines in about everything. Its not that fragile a motor. I see more problems with crap fuel and no service.
I will say fixing glow plugs should be the first you do if you need to use either.
Just my take as a general mechanic seeing all makes models.

in closing do what others say … spray sparingly while spining motor…DONT RUN IT ON EITHER.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Ok well diesel engines are high compression… most much higher than kubota. In all my time working on cat ..cummins… Detroit… Kubota… ford… gm diesels i have never seen bent rods, broken pistons or much other damage from occasional use of either. Especially the new either. Its not even that great for seating tire beads anymore.
Obviously you dont use the glow plugs
Most damage i have seen is why people use either to start already worn out engines. But a blanket statement youll blow up the motor is just foolish. Yep its a crutch but we have used it on many Kubota engines in about everything. Its not that fragile a motor. I see more problems with crap fuel and no service.
I will say fixing glow plugs should be the first you do if you need to use either.
Just my take as a general mechanic seeing all makes models.

in closing do what others say … spray sparingly while spining motor…DONT RUN IT ON EITHER.

It's Ether, not either.
I'll respectfully disagree with you, I've seen 100's of Kubota engines with every issue that i said and all of the issues were caused by using Ether!
I have read a lot of Kubota manuals and a lot or all say, DO NOT use Ether or any starting fluid.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

 

[007kubotaguy]

Ok well diesel engines are high compression… most much higher than kubota. In all my time working on cat ..cummins… Detroit… Kubota… ford… gm diesels i have never seen bent rods, broken pistons or much other damage from occasional use of either. Especially the new either. Its not even that great for seating tire beads anymore.
Obviously you dont use the glow plugs
Most damage i have seen is why people use either to start already worn out engines. But a blanket statement youll blow up the motor is just foolish. Yep its a crutch but we have used it on many Kubota engines in about everything. Its not that fragile a motor. I see more problems with crap fuel and no service.
I will say fixing glow plugs should be the first you do if you need to use either.
Just my take as a general mechanic seeing all makes models.

in closing do what others say … spray sparingly while spining motor…DONT RUN IT ON EITHER.

How much starting fluid is okay? I started working on Kubota tractors in 1979. I cannot tell you how many engines I have repaired due to starting fluid use. You will not find a can of starting fluid in my shop or service truck. Telling people that starting fluid is okay in my opinion is extremely poor advice. Not here to argue. I think most everybody that has any experience with these engines will say the same thing. You are correct about many other engines that you can safely use starting fluid on. As I'm sure you know many pieces of equipment used to come with an injection system on it for starting fluid.

 

[Russell King]

#110 seems to be the glow plug, you need 4, about $90 CDN each.
if you disconnect them, you can measure each one on low ohms. Should be about 1 ohm (WSM will say...)
if ZERO...it's shorted ( unlikely though...)
if NOTHING..it's open ( won't heat up), BAD, needs to be replaced.

If only one is bad, engine might start though take longer;when 2 are bad, might not start.

@GreensvilleJay
Kubota illustrated parts list done pulled the wool over your eyes!

You probably searched for ”L345” and got this list

Notice that list is deceptively long and contains the L345 AND the L3450 tractors (red highlight)

I got caught in that once and @North Idaho Wolfman told me of my transgression! I think that was some injector thread (the L3450 uses the pencil style injectors while the L345 uses a squatty shorter injector).

Obviously the glow plugs are different pricing also!

Added on edit
I read on something that on the L 345 it is better to remove the intake manifold to get to the glow plugs so may need that gasket also!

 

[Oleracer]

How much starting fluid is okay? I started working on Kubota tractors in 1979. I cannot tell you how many engines I have repaired due to starting fluid use. You will not find a can of starting fluid in my shop or service truck. Telling people that starting fluid is okay in my opinion is extremely poor advice. Not here to argue. I think most everybody that has any experience with these engines will say the same thing. You are correct about many other engines that you can safely use starting fluid on. As I'm sure you know many pieces of equipment used to come with an injection system on it for starting fluid.

I only have you by 2 years. 1977
Guess you found that guy that all our service trucks have “starting fluid” in them.
Well its time for all this doom and gloom guys to show us all these 100s of Kubota engines damaged by “Starting Fluid”.
Please show us these bent rods… blown/ broken pistons and other great explosions that can be proved damaged by the scary fluid.
I have always cautioned inexperienced/homeowners to be careful when using Starting Fluid.
I have heard the myth for over 50 years but yet to see evidence other than broken rings that can also be explained by other misuse. Mostly myths spread by dealers of equipment that want to deny warranty claims. If your a good equipment operator / mechanic you do know manuals are written by lawyers.
So i haven’t seen any evidence of “starting fluid “ used correctly explosions or extreme ly damaged engines. But you do you and ill still be ordering 3-4 cases of starting fluid.
The next question. -20 snowing with 4-5 kubota engines in different equipment. Power failure and a couple bota dont want to fire? 1am and this equipment has to be working in 30 minutes. What to do? I guess just give up and loose a 6 figure contract. Please dont give me the better prepared answer that cozy guys in bed that time of morning. A sniff of the devil juice and they are off working like they have for the last 10-12 years.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I think anyone wanting a real understanding of how and why ether has been used as a starting aid on diesel engines should research direct versus indirect injection diesel engine design and the use of ether starting systems.

Then when confronted with a cold diesel engine and a can of ether ask yourself what type of engine do I have in front of me and is this a good idea....

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

When I sold my Buda 4BD-153 forklift , I gave the new buyer the case of starting fluid as it needed it. Kubota says 'Do NOT use any 'starting fluid (ether)', period. So, end of discussion.
They designed the engine, they KNOW best.
Heck, had a Freightliner tractor for 3-4 years for a guy. It did NOT have glowplugs, yet it always started up fine.... was told none of them had GPs...... so not all diesels are the same !

 

[D2Cat]

Direct injection MAKES a difference.

My '66 Case would require some aid if I didn't use a block heater a couple of hours before needing it in the winter. Summer time is no problem starting.