M7060,.. Are wheel weights a must & a creeper gear?

[Stitchit1]

After getting advice from my recent post I am going from looking at buying m6060 8 speed transmission to the m7060 12 speed transmission. The dealer is recommending 3 wheel weights per rear tire. (I will mainly be doing loader work with the tractor). What are your thoughts? Will they end up sticking out farther than the tire? I’m not familiar with them.

Also, some have recommended the creeper gear. Again, I’m not familiar with it. Is its purpose to push into a pile with your loader in a slower speed/rate?

Thank you all for your help and advice! Love this site!!

 

[McMXi]

I have three wheel weights per wheel (990lb total), Rim Guard in the rear tires (1,440lb total) and the creep cassette. I would add all three again if back at square one. Creep is primarily intended for maximum torque applications such as ground engaging operations pulling a mole plow, sub-soiler, two or three bottom plow etc., but I find it very useful for loading the tractor and folding cutter on the trailer. I have to back on and the VERY slow and steady control of creep range is appreciated. It's also a nice option when backing up to an implement but not essential. Another benefit is climbing a steep hill when there's 3ft of snow on the ground. Been there and done that.

I have the rear wheels spaced at the second widest setting of the four options. The three weights don't stick out past the tire.

 

[JasonW]

If buying new I would recommend cast center wheel weights. You can still add weight if needed to those.
I have the standard stamped rims with 3 sets of wheel weights and full of water. They do stick outside the tire but that depends how the wheel spacing is set up.

Creeper gears are not recommended for heavy loads. Thats very clear in the manual. It just adds another range. It’s high, low, and creep.
They are for slow speed such as tilling. I shift mine into creep range every time I change implements on the 3pt or the FEL. Also for slow moving using my homemade man basket. I sometimes use it to load into a trailer depending what implement I have on it.

It’s better than slipping the clutch to go a little slower. I can just shift to creep range and pick 1-4 on the transmission.

I can get some MPH data for you if you’d like this evening.

 

[Stitchit1]

If buying new I would recommend cast center wheel weights. You can still add weight if needed to those.
I have the standard stamped rims with 3 sets of wheel weights and full of water. They do stick outside the tire but that depends how the wheel spacing is set up.

Creeper gears are not recommended for heavy loads. Thats very clear in the manual. It just adds another range. It’s high, low, and creep.
They are for slow speed such as tilling. I shift mine into creep range every time I change implements on the 3pt or the FEL. Also for slow moving using my homemade man basket. I sometimes use it to load into a trailer depending what implement I have on it.

It’s better than slipping the clutch to go a little slower. I can just shift to creep range and pick 1-4 on the transmission.

I can get some MPH data for you if you’d like this evening.

Thank you! That won’t be necessary but appreciate it just the same.

 

[McMXi]

@JasonW .... here you go.

 

[McMXi]

Here's the manual data re the two transmissions and creep range.

 

[McMXi]

And here's what the operator's manual says about creep range. I would really like to hear an explanation from a Kubota engineer as to their reasoning for some of the "can not be used for" situations. The last one in particular about loading "on/off a truck" which is akin to a trailer.

 

[JasonW]

And here's what the operator's manual says about creep range. I would really like to hear an explanation from a Kubota engineer as to their reasoning for some of the "can not be used for" situations. The last one in particular about loading "on/off a truck" which is akin to a trailer.

View attachment 172337

I would think it’s from the strength of the creeper gear set. I didn’t have any pictures of the gears when I installed mine but usually when you gear down ratios the small gear gets smaller and thus weaker.

Although not recommended I have loaded into a trailer and such in creep range. I have even tested it pushing a tree, put it in 1st creep range and surprisingly it didn’t burst into flames, just spun all four tires.

It’s honestly too slow to use with a plow. Your experience may be different but using a turning plow you have to be able to pull it fast enough to get the soil to throw over. I would think using a sub soiler or ripper regular low 1st would be plenty.

Biggest benefit in my use is swapping implements, and using it with my man basket trimming limbs and such. Also having my wife/kids drive it not have to worry about them learning/trying to slip the clutch.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

And here's what the operator's manual says about creep range. I would really like to hear an explanation from a Kubota engineer as to their reasoning for some of the "can not be used for" situations. The last one in particular about loading "on/off a truck" which is akin to a trailer.

View attachment 172337

it was explained to me as wanting to avoid an "over torque" situation which can break expensive stuff like the transmission really quickly. creep is great for getting your speeds correct but when added to very high torque needs and great traction bad things happen.

Imagine chaining up to an immovable object or pushing onto a big tree. wheel weights in place, tires filled, correct tires for the type of ground, etc.... giving perfect and absolute traction. pick your lowest gear with creep and with such strong traction / no tire slip you can break drive train stuff easily and that then becomes the weakest link. If tires spin first fantastic but if tires don't spin like on loading ramps.... oops comes to mind.

I understand the concept but like you the list is a bit to broad.

 

[JasonW]

Thanks. I forgot about the chart from the owners manual with the actual numbers.

It’s put in perspective that the chart is at “rated engine speed”.

 

[McMXi]

I would think it’s from the strength of the creeper gear set. I didn’t have any pictures of the gears when I installed mine but usually when you gear down ratios the small gear gets smaller and thus weaker.

Although not recommended I have loaded into a trailer and such in creep range. I have even tested it pushing a tree, put it in 1st creep range and surprisingly it didn’t burst into flames, just spun all four tires.

It’s honestly too slow to use with a plow. Your experience may be different but using a turning plow you have to be able to pull it fast enough to get the soil to throw over. I would think using a sub soiler or ripper regular low 1st would be plenty.

Biggest benefit in my use is swapping implements, and using it with my man basket trimming limbs and such. Also having my wife/kids drive it not have to worry about them learning/trying to slip the clutch.

Good point about the bottom plow ground speed. When I think of the forces being applied to the transmission when pulling a mole plow or sub-soiler I can't imagine how driving on/off a trailer would be an issue. I wonder if the pulling in/out of a field, or the truck/trailer comment is more about ground speed being too slow to react quickly to a possible dangerous situation where you need to move the tractor fairly quickly.

 

[McMXi]

I understand the concept but like you the list is a bit to broad.

I'm thinking that the "cannot be used for" list is more about safety in terms of inability to move the tractor quickly. This makes much more sense to me than any concern re the transmission. Seriously, what can stress the transmission and driveline more than pulling a mole plow or sub-soiler?

 

[JasonW]

I'm thinking that the "cannot be used for" list is more about safety in terms of inability to move the tractor quickly. This makes much more sense to me than any concern re the transmission. Seriously, what can stress the transmission and driveline more than pulling a mole plow or sub-soiler?

I would think it’s how small/weak the creep range gear itself is. The small gear is a thin gear maybe 2” in diameter.

 

[JasonW]

Found this on TBN.

 

[McMXi]

Found this on TBN.

That's a good photo ... thanks for posting that. I had the dealer install the creep range option so never saw it in the flesh.

 

[SDT]

it was explained to me as wanting to avoid an "over torque" situation which can break expensive stuff like the transmission really quickly. creep is great for getting your speeds correct but when added to very high torque needs and great traction bad things happen.

Imagine chaining up to an immovable object or pushing onto a big tree. wheel weights in place, tires filled, correct tires for the type of ground, etc.... giving perfect and absolute traction. pick your lowest gear with creep and with such strong traction / no tire slip you can break drive train stuff easily and that then becomes the weakest link. If tires spin first fantastic but if tires don't spin like on loading ramps.... oops comes to mind.

I understand the concept but like you the list is a bit to broad.

Bingo.

Similar to the rather fragile Howard trencher transmission once sold for use with 40s-50s vintage Ford tractors. Gear ratio provided very low ground speed needed for chain trencher but torque multiplication was far in excess of drive train components so "creep/trench" range not suitable for drawbar loads. In the case of the Howard, the Howard transmission gears were the weak link and many (most?) have long since failed due to abusive drawbar loads applied by unknowledgable operators.

After getting advice from my recent post I am going from looking at buying m6060 8 speed transmission to the m7060 12 speed transmission. The dealer is recommending 3 wheel weights per rear tire. (I will mainly be doing loader work with the tractor). What are your thoughts? Will they end up sticking out farther than the tire? I’m not familiar with them.

Also, some have recommended the creeper gear. Again, I’m not familiar with it. Is its purpose to push into a pile with your loader in a slower speed/rate?

Thank you all for your help and advice! Love this site!!

Need for creeper gear set is simply a matter of intended uses. NO! Creeper gears not intended to push hard with FEL. More importantly, tractor/FELs are NOT excavators and are not intended for excavation. Tractor/FELs are suitable for moving loose material but a skid steer is needed to dig.

By all means, get cast wheel centers. Serious FEL work will also require cast wheel weights and/or liquid ballast. I had both cast centers and cast weights on my M9960 but never used liquid ballast for multiple reasons. With cast centers but without cast weights, tractor would not back up slight incline on crushed rock with FEL mounted (empty buchet) unless FWA engaged.

Rear rims can be mounted onto wheel centers, either stamped steel or cast iron, in various positions to adjust tread width. Whether 2 or 3 cast weights will extend outside of the wheel/tire will depend upon how rims are mounted. Yes, set of 3 will extend outside of wheel/tire in most cases.

 

[SDT]

Found this on TBN.
View attachment 172338

Obviously not intended for heavy loads.

 

[McMXi]

Obviously not intended for heavy loads.

So pulling a mole plow or sub-soiler isn't considered "heavy loads"?

 

[McMXi]

The manual says use creep for "harrowing" but I had no trouble pulling this disc harrow around in L2 and L3. This was a hilly property too and the harrow weighs 2,000 lb or more.

 

[McMXi]

OK ... so is the consensus that creep range is intended for situations where going slow is desired without much load on the tractor? If that's the case, it's counter to my understanding of low range in every truck and Jeep that I've owned over the years where maximum torque at the drive wheels is the objective.