Electric Vehicles. Can anyone make this make sense?

[NCL4701]

BTW, ever seen anybody actually haul anything in a Cybertruck?

Sort of, yes.

I once witnessed a young couple with three little kids haul the five of them in the front and some groceries in the back. The woman looked happy strapping the the kids in the “truck cab”. I assume they have a back seat? The look on the man’s face as he loaded the groceries in the “truck bed” immediately reminded me of this:

I don’t know if it was the kids, the wife, the Cybertruck, or some combination, but the dude was clearly regretting some life decisions.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

The modular nuclear idea is more than just data centers and Musk is a very long way from having data centers in space.

Dan

If companies try to go that way make sure they pay for the storage of the nuclear waste for the next 200000 to 500000 years up front.

Otherwise the "taxpayer" (meaning: you) will be left to pick up the tab.

 

[TheOldHokie]

If companies try to go that way make sure they pay for the storage of the nuclear waste for the next 200000 to 500000 years up front.

Otherwise the "taxpayer" (meaning: you) will be left to pick up the tab.

That of course would require government mandates, incentives, and involvement

This modular nuclear idea is probably not the answer but I do think nuclear is going to play a role. The modular idea is driven mainly by low cost, quick to market, and easy profits. I dont think thats a wise way to deal with this energy source.

There is a clear need to increase our electrical generaration capacity by orders of magnitude and for multiple reasons, EVs and datacenters being just two.

We arent going to do that on the cheap or overnight. With the inception of ARPAnet in the early 70's it took 50 years to build out our digtal communications networks and many said it could not be done. But we did and we are still building more.

Humans are resource hogs and we are never going to have enough of anything. Thats been our MO for centuries now and I dont see it changing in mine or my childrens lifetime. But maybe we can get smart enough to focus on conservation and increasing efficiecy as we continue to gobble up more and more.

Dan

 

[jimh406]

All of the systems that produce power produce waste or hazardous waste as well.

 

[TheOldHokie]

L

All of the systems that produce power produce waste or hazardous waste as well.

But nothing even remotely close to the operational dangers and hazard level of nuclear waste. If there was anything close to parity we would be up to our ears in nuclear power plants.

Dan

 

[WFM]

One thing I've learned here and elsewhere is once someone is locked in on electric cars and other equipment are great. Thats it. No reasoning with them. They just spit in your face and walk away.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Humans are resource hogs and we are never going to have enough of anything. Thats been our MO for centuries now and I dont see it changing in mine or my childrens lifetime.

Yes, you are right with "never enough of anything".

But at the increased pace we are wasting resources it will lead to an end soon. The earths resources are limited. And when I see the waste when disposing of electrical vehicles in particular I have the feeling that the collapse of society will happen during my life time.

 

[lynnmor]

And when I see the waste when disposing of electrical vehicles in particular I have the feeling that the collapse of society will happen during my life time.

The thing is we are like frogs in a pot that don't know that the temperature rise is getting near boiling. The "news" today has no clue and reports entertainment instead of describing where we are and where we were at one time.

 

[chris142]

The electric car ppl that think they are saving the environment have no clue how things work.
As a California resident I can say that
Most Democrats are the same. They can't see the big picture. 1000's of gallons of diesel fuel to dig up the lithium for the batteries, then there's the huge hole left behind etc.

I will end by saying that everyone better pray that our governor Newscum does not become president.

 

[Tarmy]

Welcome to our Hell OP.

CA has had grid/supply issues for decades and it is getting worse. We also have the insane set of mandated policies that will continue to make it impossible to continue on the current course. No ICE vehicles in the next decade and the already prohibition on gas implements less than 25 hp. No chainsaws, generators etc that involve any form of gas/propane etc.

Oh, and no new generation plans in sight…as the environmental regulations basically make it impossible to build here.

And…we already have the most expensive electricity, gas, diesel and tax structure anyplace except HI.

This will not end well and nobody seems to have any plan to solve things…but we sure do produce a lot of politicians telling everybody how great they and their Nirvana policies are.

Rant off…

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

All of the systems that produce power produce waste or hazardous waste as well.

Geothermal?
Hydro?
Solar?
Wind?

 

[jimh406]

Geothermal?
Hydro?
Solar?
Wind?

My point, they don't work without electrical components. In some jurisdictions, you aren't allowed to dispose of anything with electronics. I call that waste and some say it is hazardous waste.

Of course, they have to be manufactured as well, and that doesn't even count wiring or batteries.

I was just talking to a friend today about PCBs left over from creating dams to produce power.

Some may be cleaner than others, but there is always something.

 

[Scm]

End goal is to take the cars away from the people. They pollute; gas and electric, and they sit in the driveway 95% of the time. They require lots of space. They are expensive, they are dangerous. We can all ride share.

What else, oh ya, they represent freedom.

 

[InTheWoods]

...Government forced grid dependent full electric appears mind numbingly stupid. I don’t want to go all tin foil hat conspiracy theory, but what am I missing? Is there some way to make the current push for grid dependent electric vehicles make sense?

You need to re-think your premise here. As of September of 2025, the 'push' (at least in the form of tax credits) is gone. So I'd argue there is no 'push' towards EVs now and IMO, that's the way it should be.

People are finding out EVs cost a lot to buy, depreciate fast, and aren't as cheap to drive (from an energy standpoint anyway) as they might have thought. It's also not anywhere near obvious they 'save the planet' from a CO2 standpoint.

All that said, I LOVE my Tesla! Being powered by a battery is only a small part of the reason - it's great in other ways.

 

[NCL4701]

You need to re-think your premise here. As of September of 2025, the 'push' (at least in the form of tax credits) is gone. So I'd argue there is no 'push' towards EVs now and IMO, that's the way it should be.

People are finding out EVs cost a lot to buy, depreciate fast, and aren't as cheap to drive (from an energy standpoint anyway) as they might have thought. It's also not anywhere near obvious they 'save the planet' from a CO2 standpoint.

All that said, I LOVE my Tesla! Being powered by a battery is only a small part of the reason - it's great in other ways.

That’s a good point. Still being forced in CA, I believe, but federal incentives phased out.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You need to re-think your premise here. As of September of 2025, the 'push' (at least in the form of tax credits) is gone. So I'd argue there is no 'push' towards EVs now and IMO, that's the way it should be.

People are finding out EVs cost a lot to buy, depreciate fast, and aren't as cheap to drive (from an energy standpoint anyway) as they might have thought. It's also not anywhere near obvious they 'save the planet' from a CO2 standpoint.

All that said, I LOVE my Tesla! Being powered by a battery is only a small part of the reason - it's great in other ways.

I guess we are the odd ducks of the EV owning market.

We bought our EV Cadillac for the same price as a comparable ICE vehicle.
We don't really care about the depreciation, would work out the same with an ICE vehicle.
Our's is MUCH cheaper to drive than our ICE vehicle.
Works out to about 1/8 the cost per month.
Maintenance is well nothing, no oil change, no brake pad/rotor wear (you don't push the pedal to stop)

The one super shocking point is we were counting on our insurance going way up.
Well it actually dropped and worked out that our insurance costs are a 1/3 of what out ICE vehicle was.

And saying that EV vehicles are grid dependent... Well ICE vehicles are Fuel station dependent, so in reality it's quite the same issue.

 

[AndyM]

Modular reactors are being held out as the solution to much of this. A good discussion is here.

SMRs Explained: Real-World Economics, Fuel Bottlenecks, and the Race to Scale | OilPrice.com

Small Modular Reactors are pivoting the nuclear industry from custom-built energy cathedrals to factory-built energy appliances, driven by the need for 24/7 firm power to feed AI data centers and decarbonize industrial heat.

oilprice.com

 

[TheOldHokie]

I guess we are the odd ducks of the EV owning market.

We bought our EV Cadillac for the same price as a comparable ICE vehicle.
We don't really care about the depreciation, would work out the same with an ICE vehicle.
Our's is MUCH cheaper to drive than our ICE vehicle.
Works out to about 1/8 the cost per month.
Maintenance is well nothing, no oil change, no brake pad/rotor wear (you don't push the pedal to stop)

The one super shocking point is we were counting on our insurance going way up.
Well it actually dropped and worked out that our insurance costs are a 1/3 of what out ICE vehicle was.

And saying that EV vehicles are grid dependent... Well ICE vehicles are Fuel station dependent, so in reality it's quite please the same issue.

No offense but I would not have figured you to be an early adopter

These arguments get tiresome. In the end consumers worldwide will elect a winner. Early returns show ICE is currently losing this race and for reasons other than mandates and subsidies. With a little luck I will still be around when the polls close and a new hot button issue takes its place.

Dan

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Geothermal?
Hydro?
Solar?
Wind?

Energy storage is the problem, not generation. People want electricity when it's dark and calm too.

And no, batteries are not the solution, they are the biggest environmental disaster ever. Humans will figure this out in years to come. At the moment the government agendas are that it's "clean".

 

[mikester]

My observation is that the majority of large 4x4 pickups and suv's rarely if ever tow or haul anything more than groceries. Off road for them means salt covered suburban paved roads and the ability to drive over curbs. That includes the redneck wankers with jacked up trucks, giant tires, loud exhausts and rolling coal who want everyone to hear them drive away for hours.

EV's are perfect for them except for the fact that EVs accelerate faster and have reduced stopping distances and are beyond the majority of driver's spacial and cognitive capabilities.