To hydro or not

[Bluegill]

I'll take that bet with my gear tranny and show you up without clashing gears. When would you like to go????

I'll put my money on you, Eric...

 

[Bluegill]

Only choice is the HST. It is easier on the body and will run longer than a manual transmission between repairs hands down.

Of course that is assuming given equal maintenance on both a manual and HST unit.

David

David, I completely disagree with your statement!

 

[mattl]

I agree with you Rob about trying out the different tractors beforehand. I hope I'll be able to find both types locally before I pull the trigger.

I don't think I'll need the front PTO however...at least not for snow blowing. Very good point.

 

[Rob]

Here is another reason why i prefer gear over hydro.


This is the drive input shaft on the hydro pump from my now gone B7100hst, which had a genuine circa 800-850 hrs running time,( I have the paperwork so i know its correct).
This was an unknown failure waiting to happen and due to the poor access to maintain the coupling it was not visible without removing the coupling assembly, and splitting the whole tractor in half.
Not a big issue on a gear version as i've split mine numerous times now, but way more involved on the hst.

Net result was a hydro pump that pretty well a right off, with a £3000 replacement price it was not a viable repair.
Had it been a gear drive, worse case would be a new input shaft, cost's a few hundred pounds and and easy fix.

So there you go, clock hours mean nothing when it comes to parts you cannot see or service easily, but you can lessen the repair bill .
I wouldnt have another HST now as i would allways be wary of my prevoius problem with one.

Its probably an isolated case, but from all my other projects and work on this part of the older B series tractors, it seem to happen to both variants and is directly atributed to the poor access for essential maintance to the coupling beween the drive shft and the gearbox input shaft, and it can happen to anyone and probably is right now, slowly shaking its self to bits.

But hey, dont let me influence you on your choice, just thought i would point this little nicety to you , better you know all the facts.

rob

 

[Burt]

New guy here. I am also new to tractors in general. I have a smallish 3 ac rolling hill homestead and am looking for a mower/ garden tractor for maintenance.

I have been looking at B5100, B6100, B7100 series older tractors. It would seem any of these models would work for my needs. Because of the hills, the 4wd may be better.

My dilema is whether to choose a manual gearbox or a Hydrostatic? I like the idea of a simpler Non-hydro tractor. Will the hydro be more maintenance and more expensive?

Can ya'll provide pros/cons of either?

Matt

Matti:

Consider all the opinions and fact you have read. Go try several out.

I respect both sides of this discussion.

Ask yourself if only you will be operating this tractor you are considering. If so, then either is OK.

Manual shifts on a tractor are not easy for some. My wife could not drive our Ford 2N tractor easily and I wouldn't trust our Grandson at 14 years of age on it either.

However, my wife operates our L3700SU (L3800) HST with ease and I fully trust the 14 year old Grandson on it. We also have some rolling hills here on 6.5 acres.

The "throttle" on a tractor is set by hand unlike a foot pedal on a car. This is true of HST and manual tractors. However, IF you were to accidentally pop the clutch with a manual in gear and have the throttle any where, it will take off!

Not true of the HST. The hand "throttle" operates the same. However, the foot pedal controls the hydraulic fluid flow in and through the valves and acts somewhat like a car pedal. The tractor will stop no matter where the "throttle" is set when you let off the foot pedal.

My wife and grandkids operate this HST tractor with ease and I trust it and them with it.

Good luck in your search and have fun with it.

Burt

 

[dmanlyr]

I'll take that bet with my gear tranny and show you up without clashing gears. When would you like to go????

Any time Eric, any time. I wish you were closer so that we could settle this once and for all, but keep dreaming that you could win.

Manuals are about as dead as gas engines in medium and heavy duty trucks. They had there time and are now obsolete.

Like I have maintained, times change. That's keep the next generation from being physically damaged from performing a totally unneeded task. Yes, I for one could go for almost ALL manual transmissions in all most all applications being outlawed from a ergonomic reason alone. The cost saving from unneeded repetitive joint damage alone would be a health care cost savings.

I know in my case it would have save one surgery and years of pain. And there are a lot more older truck drivers out there that have had to have shoulder surgery from there occupation of truck driving - and shifting.

Again, wish you were closer, me thinks you need some schoolin'

David

 

[dmanlyr]

David, I completely disagree with your statement!

As is your right.

After Eric and I's last discussion a few months ago on HST's verses manuals, I have been keeping a running tally of manual verses HST transmission troubles ....

Perhaps because the machines are older and HST's were not as popular once upon a time, but it manuals certainly have more posted problems that HST's transmissions, at least on a informal forum watch.

So to recap.... Yes, more manuals have posted problems than HST's. At least by recent post counts. So, still think that manuals have less problems? Or is it just a fluke in postings that seen to point out that manuals while inferior on many respects at least from a mechanical perspective are less reliable?

I could not tell you for certain, all I did was keep a non scientific running tally.

Again, as always, personal preferences will determine what a particular person chooses, but no reason to blame HST's for issues that they do not have.

David

 

[TripleR]

Never ending discussion debate, I drove only gear tractors for over fifty years and was a little skeptical of HST on anything above a lawnmower size machine such as our BX; been using a L5030 and then L5740 for almost three years and have full faith in them. I still drive our geared M8540, but as nice as the Hydraulic Shuttle Shift is, the HST is a little easier and after a full day on either tractor, me and both my sons are more tired after spending it on the M8540 unless we are just mowing with little direction change then the M wins out due to size and ride.

 

[mattl]

Thanks TripleR. Good stuff.

 

[eserv]

Interesting comments! We sell only HST models right up to 57HP at our dealership. There really is just nothing not to like about them!

 

[Lil Foot]

Gear for me.
For me, it's more a question of economics.... I cannot now, nor likely in the future, afford a new machine with all the bells & whistles. If I could, I would buy the HST.... don't have a lot of time on them, but really like the concept.
So, I am relegated to buying used, and a repair on an old gear tractor is more likely to be within my budget, skill set, & tool set.

 

[lsmurphy]

The short answer is..........suit yourself.

 

[Benhameen]

When I was shopping around in Dec for my new L3800. I was dead set on getting the manual. My uncle has a newer Kubota with the manual and a couple older gentlemen from the old tractor repair shop agreed that the manual was the only way to go.

Once I started talking to the salesmen at the Kubota dealers, they basicly said they would have to order the manual at that time of the year as they didn't really keep them in stock.

The guy I ended up buying from was a pretty straight shooter, I'm in sales so I can read them pretty well. He asked me why I was set on the manual, I told him the reasons above. His quote to me was that anyone the buys a manual is "ignorant" that includes my uncle which bought his tractor from the same guy. He said he tried to get my uncle not to buy the manual but could not get him to change his mind. He also said that they had worked on 3 different transmissions in 2 years,all of them manuals.

 

[Burt]

When I was shopping around in Dec for my new L3800. I was dead set on getting the manual. My uncle has a newer Kubota with the manual and a couple older gentlemen from the old tractor repair shop agreed that the manual was the only way to go.

Once I started talking to the salesmen at the Kubota dealers, they basicly said they would have to order the manual at that time of the year as they didn't really keep them in stock.

The guy I ended up buying from was a pretty straight shooter, I'm in sales so I can read them pretty well. He asked me why I was set on the manual, I told him the reasons above. His quote to me was that anyone the buys a manual is "ignorant" that includes my uncle which bought his tractor from the same guy. He said he tried to get my uncle not to buy the manual but could not get him to change his mind. He also said that they had worked on 3 different transmissions in 2 years,all of them manuals.

Benhameen:

The same is true now of manual transmissions in cars and trucks. More automatics are sold than manual transmissions. Reason: It costs more to build a manual transmission. Now the automatics are the defacto standard as is true in large and small tractors including the lawn variety.

It's a sea change in the history of vehicles. I respect both sides for their persistence and yet, I go with the middle of the bell curve. The middle is now more toward automatics and HST type transmissions.

Here's a couple of questions to ask oneself: "If the new manual ones are special order, then how easy will it be to get parts for them in the future?"

Another question: "If the factory builds less manual transmissions now, how familiar will the field techs/mechanics be with them in the future?"

You did good by checking about the repairs first. The ditch knows more than the desk always.

You're Uncle isn't stupid, he has a familiarity and a knowledge others don't.

Burt

 

[Bluegill]

When I was shopping around in Dec for my new L3800. I was dead set on getting the manual. My uncle has a newer Kubota with the manual and a couple older gentlemen from the old tractor repair shop agreed that the manual was the only way to go.

Once I started talking to the salesmen at the Kubota dealers, they basicly said they would have to order the manual at that time of the year as they didn't really keep them in stock.

The guy I ended up buying from was a pretty straight shooter, I'm in sales so I can read them pretty well. He asked me why I was set on the manual, I told him the reasons above. His quote to me was that anyone the buys a manual is "ignorant" that includes my uncle which bought his tractor from the same guy. He said he tried to get my uncle not to buy the manual but could not get him to change his mind. He also said that they had worked on 3 different transmissions in 2 years,all of them manuals.

Funniest thing I've read in a while! (The part in bold)

No, I do not agree with that statement at all...

 

[hodge]

Funniest thing I've read in a while! (The part in bold)

No, I do not agree with that statement at all...

I disagree, also. It is a preference. Both methods of motivation have their merits and drawbacks, and neither is superior.
Manual or HST. Dino or synthetic. Amsoil or anything else. Democratic or Republican. These arguments will never stop. But, in the end, that's all they are- arguments. Not proof, not exhaustive. Just opinion and preference.

 

[seanbarr]

It probably pays to know what you intend to use the machine for if you're split right down the middle.

If you're just gonna use your tractor on the field where you practically just drive forward just about most of the time, can't hurt with just the manual.

If you're gonna be moving back & forth, moving materials around, push snow, etc, I can see where the HST is superior and would lean towards that.

And regardless of which you decide, take care of your machine, check it often before use, and stay on top of maintenance schedules. Doing that will ensure years of service out of your machine.

Oh, and don't let others borrow your machine.

 

[mattl]

I'll be handling mowing chores and very light dirtwork, so a hydro would work. It seems like more hydros are in my area for sale anyway.

Lil foot had a good point of having the ability to work on the gear drive tractors. Plus probably a little cheaper too.

Decisions like this are hard with pros and cons of both.

Thanks guys. I'll be test driving some soon.

 

[jeep08ham]

Since I have the experience of being a mechanic for the past 40 years, I would agree you will see more HST being sold than ever before. The same can be said for the trucking industry. There is one very large reason with the trucks! It is because there are so few good truck drivers out there that know how to shift a manual transmisson. Now, with all of that being said, I will still take the maual over the HST T for myself. This past winter I did 3 HST overhauls in my shop and one clutch on a manual transmisson. I do think a lot of either mechanical problems come back to the fact that a lot of people do not change oil and filter or use the correct oil in the HST. Manuals also need the oil changed and levels maintained. Also the heat buildup in hard useage on an HST is a sure killer!

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Manuals also need the oil changed and levels maintained. Also the heat buildup in hard useage on an HST is a sure killer!

That's were my train of thought was going on an HST for the long run. HST is great for the weekend warrior who's maintaining their property and small acreage. But like you mentioned the heat build up is the killer for running it all day every day.

I use my tractors in a landscape business where I put 10 to 12 hours a day on them and I can't foresee the HST holding up for the long haul.

When I was truck driving and using truck mount forklifts like a Moffit or Piggyback they where hydraulic driven and I hated them. The pumps were worn slam out and weak. The damn forklift would creep forward or back, kept bumping into stuff like the side of the truck and tear steps off. And these lifts had about 1,500 to 2000 hours on them.

Hst and auto trannys are so popular because nobody knows how to shift gears anymore. Like the foreigners who come here and have no clue how to shift either. We're changing up to suite them... WTF?!??!