$16K repair bill

[NorthwoodsLife]

A 3901 is common rail though not sure if the op has year right or not, or model right, or if they even a real person…bots/AI have been crazy here lately it seems.

edit to add since you did : on the bmw, welcome to manufacturers pricing when they foot the bill for their mistake .

not trying to turn this into a pissing match, I’m glad you came back here!

My salute to you. And thank you for welcoming me back. I have children older than you. If 86 is your birth year!

Although I am retired, I work for a dealership now sometimes. And i see what's going on. It's not all stealership. The manufacturers and dealers are just trying to stay afloat.

 

[mcmxi]

I am just looking for thoughts.
Thanks for looking.

Here's my thought .... it's a stealership scam.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

sigh... 'corrosive sticky substance' , man I'd love to KNOW what that is !! Aside from diesel, maybe some water , WHAT else could it be ???

Others who work on them everyday will chime in, my opinion would be to clean the injector pump and injectors, obviously the fuel lines. While injectors out, turn engine over to 'clear' the cylinders. Confirm fresh ,clean fuel gets to inj pump,prime per manual, attempt to start.

it'll be interesting to hear what others have to say.

NONE of this works on a Electronic fuel injection system.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I don't think the fuel system is that complicated. I guess I'd look for a different shop if you can't do what GreensvilleJay said yourself.

NONE of what he said will not work on an electronic fuel injection system.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Get another dealership to look and see what they think.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I disagree. Thats not all he can do. He could replace the fuel system himself. If it doesn't work, it's still a broken tractor. It's a risk I would certainly take.

Can he replace a fuel injector on that tractor? No. Its common rail electronic fuel injection and that requires Kubota diagnostic hardware and software he does not have. Servicing that system takes more than a box full of wrenches.

How about cost if he could? List price for injectors is $950 each, fuel rail is $1500, and injection pump is $3500. And $8K later it still wont run until its reprogrammed.

Dan

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Here is my $.02....it's a Hail Mary for sure, However......

You have nothing to lose at this point; I would get a bucket and 5 gallons of "cleaning solvent", some cans of Brake Cleaner, some compressed air, and some various scrubbing utensils.

I would soak everything in the solvent for a week or 2. During that time I would scrub and 'blow out" every "nook and cranny" that I could.

Reassemble and see if it starts.

If it does not work, your only out ~$250, and 2 weeks. Then if you still want a tractor, take the 0% an get a new one.


I still can't believe that in only 6-8 months the fuel went that bad.....

 

[The Evil Twin]

Can he replace a fuel injector on that tractor? No. Its common rail electronic fuel injection and that requires Kubota diagnostic hardware and software he does not have. Servicing that system takes more than a box full of wrenches.

How about cost if he could? List price for injectors is $950 each, fuel rail is $1500, and injection pump is $3500. And $8K later it still wont run until its reprogrammed.

Dan

I'm still seeing it as an option. It's not like Kubota is the only one that can program the injectors to the machine. He is probably out more than 8 grand by trading it in.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

OK, Curious am I ..
Why can't he just clean out the plumbing ?
Seems to me ,once you get rid of the 'junk' in all the tubing, fittings,filters, pump, injectors, etc. and you flush with fresh fuel to confirm it's clean... the engine should run ??

 

[TheOldHokie]

I'm still seeing it as an option. It's not like Kubota is the only one that can program the injectors to the machine. He is probably out more than 8 grand by trading it in.

I gave you some OEM prices for 6 new fuel system parts that total $8k. That is not opinion.

My opinion based on that fact is he is facing a large financial loss no matter what he does.

The issue is how does he manage the loss to his maximum benefit.

My opinion is if you are looking at a $10K loss no matter what you do a trade in on a new fully warranted $23K tractor that you can pay down over 6 years at zero interest looks like a good way to manage the loss.

My opinion is that before making any decision he should get a second repair estimate and tradein offer from at least one other dealer snd a repair estimate from at least one independent repair shop.

My opinion is the prices he is seeing are simply reflective of dealer service costs and repair practices in general and not some unethical scam.

Dan

 

[fried1765]

Its not a radiator. Its a contaminated diesel common rail fuel system. So what should he replace? Who is going to supply the parts and do the work?

Dan

My point was not about a comparison between a radiator, and a common rail fuel system.
My point, was about repair shops, and/or dealer rip off artists!

 

[ItBmine]

Where does Kubota get that price for simple little injectors!!! I haven't ever paid that much for the HEUI's in my Powerstrokes!!!

Take a sample of that fuel and get an S.O.S. bottle from your local Caterpiller dealer and send in for fluid analysis. They will tell you exactly what it is.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

The price ? Simple, you need it, they got it...where else you going to go ?

Worst price I've seen...
Nissan Cashkey(sp) left front wheel well trim piece. MAYBE 2#s of plastic....$522.xx Canadian(+ 13% taxes..) !!! Something injection molded in 30 seconds, MILLIONS of them made, and a KNOWN 'easy to sell' item

 

[Sheephobbyist]

I gave you some OEM prices for 6 new fuel system parts that total $8k. That is not opinion.

My opinion based on that fact is he is facing a large financial loss no matter what he does.

The issue is how does he manage the loss to his maximum benefit.

My opinion is if you are looking at a $10K loss no matter what you do a trade in on a new fully warranted $23K tractor that you can pay down over 6 years at zero interest looks like a good way to manage the loss.

My opinion is that before making any decision he should get a second repair estimate and tradein offer from at least one other dealer snd a repair estimate from at least one independent repair shop.

My opinion is the prices he is seeing are simply reflective of dealer service costs and repair practices in general and not some unethical scam.

Dan

I appreciate everyone's input. I can assure you that I am no "bot" and I am certain of my equipment, but can understand other's skepticism.

It does indeed have the common rail fuel system which accounts for the high repair estimates. The service shop (certified Kubota dealer and sponsors several area agricultural/equine events so marketing costs contribute to high service costs - $120/hr labor) has been transparent throughout the process. I also agree that their costs are going to be significantly higher and they would rather not spend time breaking the fuel system down, cleaning it, reassembling, and hoping it starts afterwards.

Also, they only offered the possible option of trade after I asked about it and they did not seem too excited. when I was initially tractor shopping, I approached them about used tractors and they said they tend to not sell used equipment and their onsite inventory would seem to corroborate that.

I initially took it to them around 4 weeks ago and after running diagnostics, they were hopeful that the injectors just needed to be cleaned and had planned to send them off for testing. They sent me an itemized estimate outlining worst case scenario for replacing the fuel system and parts cost aligned with what Dan had estimated and what I had found online.

Once they had the injectors off, they found the residue there as well. I was distracted picking my son up from school while discussing their findings/recommendations and will talk with them more about other options of cleaning the system out.

I agree with obtaining other estimates. I am fairly cautious with my money and actually hauled the tractor to the dealer with my dad and would plan on doing that again to other shops but next closest dealer is around 20 miles and I don't like the idea of hauling a tractor that distance for a second opinion. Hopefully they can give advice over phone. I have also read other threads on this forum detailing nightmare/expensive scenarios when going with non-kubota mechanics for fuel system repairs, which gives me pause as well.

New question(s):

Out of curiosity, if we just took it back home and removed the fuel system parts, cleaned them up, and replaced them as was previously recommended; would it still need to have the ECU reprogrammed and thus hauled back to the dealer? I have the space, tools, and equipment to do it but am leery at the scope of the project. I am a firm believer in time=money and realize that would be a big time/effort commitment.

Whatever the outcome, I will be sure to update you since I personally find it annoying when posters pose a question and never return to give updates.

Thanks again, I really appreciate you all.

Jeff

 

[TheOldHokie]

Where does Kubota get that price for simple little injectors!!! I haven't ever paid that much for the HEUI's in my Powerstrokes!!!

Take a sample of that fuel and get an S.O.S. bottle from your local Caterpiller dealer and send in for fluid analysis. They will tell you exactly what it is.

Yeah - how dare they. A set of injectors for my BMW 335xi is only $2600.

I appreciate everyone's input. I can assure you that I am no "bot" and I am certain of my equipment, but can understand other's skepticism.

It does indeed have the common rail fuel system which accounts for the high repair estimates. The service shop (certified Kubota dealer and sponsors several area agricultural/equine events so marketing costs contribute to high service costs - $120/hr labor) has been transparent throughout the process. I also agree that their costs are going to be significantly higher and they would rather not spend time breaking the fuel system down, cleaning it, reassembling, and hoping it starts afterwards.

Also, they only offered the possible option of trade after I asked about it and they did not seem too excited. when I was initially tractor shopping, I approached them about used tractors and they said they tend to not sell used equipment and their onsite inventory would seem to corroborate that.

I initially took it to them around 4 weeks ago and after running diagnostics, they were hopeful that the injectors just needed to be cleaned and had planned to send them off for testing. They sent me an itemized estimate outlining worst case scenario for replacing the fuel system and parts cost aligned with what Dan had estimated and what I had found online.

Once they had the injectors off, they found the residue there as well. I was distracted picking my son up from school while discussing their findings/recommendations and will talk with them more about other options of cleaning the system out.

I agree with obtaining other estimates. I am fairly cautious with my money and actually hauled the tractor to the dealer with my dad and would plan on doing that again to other shops but next closest dealer is around 20 miles and I don't like the idea of hauling a tractor that distance for a second opinion. Hopefully they can give advice over phone. I have also read other threads on this forum detailing nightmare/expensive scenarios when going with non-kubota mechanics for fuel system repairs, which gives me pause as well.

New question(s):

Out of curiosity, if we just took it back home and removed the fuel system parts, cleaned them up, and replaced them as was previously recommended; would it still need to have the ECU reprogrammed and thus hauled back to the dealer? I have the space, tools, and equipment to do it but am leery at the scope of the project. I am a firm believer in time=money and realize that would be a big time/effort commitment.

Whatever the outcome, I will be sure to update you since I personally find it annoying when posters pose a question and never return to give updates.

Thanks again, I really appreciate you all.

Jeff

Very cogent presentation of your situation.

I am no expert buf I am pretty sure new injectors have to be programmed. You would need to ask the dealer of that is true of the old ones after cleaning but if the calibration changes or the are installed in a different positiion I would think so.

Sounds lile you have things well in hand and its just a matter of finding the most cost effective way forward.

Truly sorry to hear your story and it strikes home. I worried about just this sort of problem when contemplating my L3901 purchase.

Dan

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

next closest dealer is around 20 miles and I don't like the idea of hauling a tractor that distance for a second opinion.

This made me huge chuckle... 20 miles is a trip to town for me.
My closest (limited) Kubota dealer is 25+ miles (full service) Kubota dealer is 65+ miles, and the next closest is 200 miles (400 round trip).

New question(s):

Out of curiosity, if we just took it back home and removed the fuel system parts, cleaned them up, and replaced them as was previously recommended; would it still need to have the ECU reprogrammed and thus hauled back to the dealer? I have the space, tools, and equipment to do it but am leery at the scope of the project. I am a firm believer in time=money and realize that would be a big time/effort commitment.

Whatever the outcome, I will be sure to update you since I personally find it annoying when posters pose a question and never return to give updates.

Thanks again, I really appreciate you all.

Jeff

If you keep the injectors in there proper cylinder location and you don't replace them then yes you could do it without reprogramming.
AND it hasn't thrown codes that are non operator resettable.

Do you have the proper tools and test equipment to disassemble a $3500 high pressure fuel pump?

Cleaning the system is fairly easy till you get to the high pressure side of this system then everything get really complicated.
I don't even think the WSM (aka service manual) will say anything about doing any of that procedure, I don't think I've seen a single blue print on the inner workings of the high pressure fuel pumps and sensors.
Electronic controlled equipment is not simple to just flush it out like old mechanical parts.
There is no way to operate (electrically open the parts) to be able to flush them out.

Quite simply throwing a couple cans of carb cleaner or brake parts cleaner is going to diddly squat to clean the insides of the high pressure system out.

Now if it were mine, And this is only a HAIL MARY PASS:
I would clean and flush all of the low pressure side of things out.
Dump a couple bottles of Fuel injector cleaner in the system, remove the injector wires, crank it till you get the concoction to the return line, reconnect the fuel injector wires, crank for a couple seconds, shut it off and walk away for the day.
Come back the next day add fuel, Remove the injector wires, Crank it till I got fuel to the return, reconnect the fuel injector wires and cross my fingers it will start.

This is not the "proper fix" but if it works you're great, if it doesn't your only out a small amount of money then I would trade it in and get a new unit, and make sure the new one someone doesn't dump junk in the fuel tank.

 

[D2Cat]

Man, I'm glad I have an old junk tractor!!!!

 

[mcmxi]

Gave me three choices - replace fuel system not knowing the condition of the cylinders (at least $10K), replace engine ($16K) or trade in (looking at trade in value now).

they only offered the possible option of trade after I asked about it and they did not seem too excited. when I was initially tractor shopping, I approached them about used tractors and they said they tend to not sell used equipment and their onsite inventory would seem to corroborate that.

This is where details matter. At first it looked like they wanted to push you in the direction of a trade-in with those repair estimates, which would indicate that they figured they could flip it easily and make some money. Turns out that you brought up the trade-in question. Now they're looking a little rosier.

So how was the tractor running before you parked it?

Could you part it out and make a lot more money?

 

[Moose7060]

Not sure if it is the same for y'all south of the border, but when I bought my M7060 last fall they offered 0% for 60 months but the administration fee and monthly required Kubota insurance came to (approx) $129.00 a month for those 60 months. $4000.00 off for paying cash was much better! All I'm saying is 0% offers may not really be 0%.

 

[Sheephobbyist]

This is where details matter. At first it looked like they wanted to push you in the direction of a trade-in with those repair estimates, which would indicate that they figured they could flip it easily and make some money. Turns out that you brought up the trade-in question. Now they're looking a little rosier.

So how was the tractor running before you parked it?

Could you part it out and make a lot more money?

Tractor was running just fine. Good HST and hydraulics.
Parting it out is definitely on my mind

Thanks for the insight.