Maui Fire

[ctfjr]

Very sad to see the loss of life and property there. My wife and I have visited many times.

I understand that Front St in Lahaina is pretty much gone including this historic 150 year old tree

 

[McMXi]

Yes, the loss of life, property and history there is devastating. So far 55 people are confirmed to have perished.

I lived in the islands for more than two decades and used to spend a lot of time in an around Lahaina. My brother-in-law was the GM of the Hyatt just up the road from Lahaina so we'd visit regularly. I have so many great memories of Lahaina, Kapalua, Kihei, Makena Beach and more. Back in 1987 I swam a race from Lana'i to Lahaina and in 1989 got married at sunset on the cliffs of Kapalua overlooking Lana'i and Molokai'i.

Sad times indeed.

 

[skeets]

99 DOA as of this morning,, a real comedy of errors. No one seemed to know what to do,, may God have mercy on the souls lost

 

[Bmyers]

I was reading that a couple is suing the power company for not turning off the power due to high winds.

Hawaiian couple suing power companies over Lahaina destruction amid historic Maui wildfires

Hawaiian couple Monica and Rede Eder is suing four power companies in Hawaii and accusing them of ignoring warnings to turn off power amid the historic wildfire conditions.

www.foxnews.com

 

[chim]

I was reading that a couple is suing the power company for not turning off the power due to high winds.

Hawaiian couple suing power companies over Lahaina destruction amid historic Maui wildfires

Hawaiian couple Monica and Rede Eder is suing four power companies in Hawaii and accusing them of ignoring warnings to turn off power amid the historic wildfire conditions.

www.foxnews.com

Had the power company gone and turned the power off, they probably would have sued because of the interruption.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

gee, you live ON an ACTIVE volcano, build your house out of WOOD, and then figure you can sue others ???

 

[jimh406]

Some of you guys apparently have never been there. The infrastructure on some of the islands is very behind the times.

It's becoming obvious the local officials had no plan to deal with this situation. Don't blame it on the resident. There is a reasonable expectation for officials to have plans in place for this type of problem. It's not like it's the first time there was ever a fire on one of the islands.

 

[cthomas]

The infrastructure is very unreliable and some real morons in charge of it. How many remember this? On the morning of January 13, 2018, an alert was accidentally issued via the Emergency Alert System and Wireless Emergency Alert System over television, radio, and cellphones in the U.S. state of Hawaii, instructing citizens to seek out shelter due to an incoming ballistic missile. It concluded: "This is not a drill". The message was sent at 8:07 a.m. local time. The state had not authorized civil defense outdoor warning sirens.

 

[RCW]

Some of you guys apparently have never been there. The infrastructure on some of the islands is very behind the times.

It’s been many years, but recall seeing some photos of some of the drinking water infrastructure in Hawaii.

Don’t remember where in Hawaii. Doesn’t matter but really surprised me how primitive it was.

Nothing more than small 20-30,000 gallon welded steel tanks that had an extension ladder to scale to top.

No idea their use/population served, etc., but certainly didn’t look like I used to see around here.

News said fire hydrants were dry. Around here they’d be connected to the potable water supply…..

My other thought was if hydrants were drawing water from the ocean, sounds like fires destroyed the electrical system pretty quick….a fire pump is a boat anchor without power.

 

[skeets]

These are the things that happen when you elect,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[UnEasyRider]

Very sad to see the loss of life and property there. My wife and I have visited many times.

I understand that Front St in Lahaina is pretty much gone including this historic 150 year old tree

View attachment 108982

What a shame. Houses and property can be rebuilt but irreplaceable, exceptional nature like that old tree...gone forever.

 

[lugbolt]

I was reading that a couple is suing the power company for not turning off the power due to high winds.

Hawaiian couple suing power companies over Lahaina destruction amid historic Maui wildfires

Hawaiian couple Monica and Rede Eder is suing four power companies in Hawaii and accusing them of ignoring warnings to turn off power amid the historic wildfire conditions.

www.foxnews.com

i would imagine that there are many suits for different reasons.

Bothersome, how litigous our society is.

In the mornings, I watch the morning entertainment-I mean news. In between segments, over 75% of the advertisements are law firms. "If you were injured in a car accident call....", or "if you were injured in a car call LeVar", you get the idea. They all make it sound like "if you were involved"....that you are eligible for a sizeable payout.

What they don't tell you is that it costs EVERYONE. One person gets sorta rich, everyone else pays. The state of Florida is finding out how all this works...

 

[Bmyers]

I'm having a hard time understanding how so many people got caught up in this fire?

Realize a few things:

1. I have never been to Hawaii, so besides what I know about tropical islands from Gilligan's Island, I don't know anything about the terrain.
2. Was/is the terrain such that escape wasn't possible?
3. I hear reports that no warning was put out, yet, if you see a large wall of fire coming your direction wouldn't you leave?
4. Does Hawaii lack the infrastructure that most States have to be able to deal with something like this?

I have tried to watch some of the so called news reporting, but besides the emotional drama, there isn't much details there. I know you see reports in the wildfires out west of those that stay behind to defend their property, but I don't believe that was the case here. The largest brush/field fire I have dealt with was about 300 acres and the farmers did all the work while we took care of the hotspots and watched over a few buildings, you got to love those big disc. I fully realize brush/field fires in the Midwest are completely different than anything out west and I'm assuming, on an island.

So, I'm just having a hard time understanding this death toll and how it occurred.

 

[Biker1mike]

These are the things that happen when you elect,,,,,,,,,,,,,

NO.
This is what happens when you pave over your wetlands or fill them in for housing. The bring in invasive (pretty) species that dry into a fire enhancer. Add in housing and vacation hotels built very close to each other.
Fire and high winds have been around much longer than the developers that chose to ignore them.
The area enjoyed the money brought in by tourist and upscale home buyers and then paid the price.

 

[jimh406]

I'm having a hard time understanding how so many people got caught up in this fire?

There are already a lot of points made in the thread, but the main ones are the notification system didn't work, cellphone coverage is bad over much of the island which contributed to lack of communication, and the geography of that part of Maui and wind.

I was on Oahu during that time, there were extremely high winds for the days previous and during. Of course, high winds make little fires huge in short order.

If you look at the map of Maui, and a fire is coming your way, there isn't a lot of places to go other than the water. Most of the beaches on the Lahaina side of the island have steep drop-offs and the waves were higher than normal due to the unusual prevailing winds.

This is what happens when you pave over your wetlands or fill them in for housing.

Frankly, you seem to be making things up. There aren't "wetlands" there, or anything close to wetlands in hardly any part of Hawaii. They were created by volcanic eruptions.

Concrete and asphalt doesn't burn very well and that island isn't very developed. Lahaina had very little new building and still burned to the ground. It was originally the main port for whaling. Larger hotels/resorts have mostly low grass around the entire properties and golf courses.

 

[Biker1mike]

There are already a lot of points made in the thread, but the main ones are the notification system didn't work, cellphone coverage is bad over much of the island which contributed to lack of communication, and the geography of that part of Maui and wind.

I was on Oahu during that time, there were extremely high winds for the days previous and during. Of course, high winds make little fires huge in short order.

If you look at the map of Maui, and a fire is coming your way, there isn't a lot of places to go other than the water. Most of the beaches on the Lahaina side of the island have steep drop-offs and the waves were higher than normal due to the unusual prevailing winds.



Frankly, you seem to be making things up. There aren't "wetlands" there, or anything close to wetlands in hardly any part of Hawaii. They were created by volcanic eruptions.

Concrete and asphalt doesn't burn very well and that island isn't very developed. Lahaina had very little new building and still burned to the ground. It was originally the main port for whaling. Larger hotels/resorts have mostly low grass around the entire properties and golf courses.

Description of State’s Wetlands
Hawaii’s wetlands include riverine wetlands, palustrine wetlands (marshes and bogs – including rare
montane bogs), estuarine wetlands (swamps and mudflats), and marine wetlands (intertidal shorelines,
seagrass beds, and tidepools). Hawaii is also host to land-locked systems in porous lava or limestone on
coastal shorelines known as anchialine pools.
Historically, Hawaii contained an estimated 59,000 acres of wetlands. Hawaii has lost over 12 percent of
its original wetland acreage and over 30 percent of its natural lowland wetlands. The remaining
wetlands cover less than three percent of Hawaii’s surface area and provide important functions,
including habitat for plant and animal species endemic to the Hawaiian Islands. Hawaii’s unique
hydrological conditions—heavy rainfall, porous volcanic soil, and steep terrain—create wetlands that
are different from those found in any other region of the United States.

Source: National Association of Wetlands Managers

 

[CaptPat]

I feel sorry for the folks caught up in this disaster.

Sounds like alot of things could have mitigated the disaster, both long term (e.g, infrastructure improvements) and shorter term (securing electrical distribution). Judging from news reports disaster response plans were inadequate, and or not practiced.

 

[Flintknapper]

I'm having a hard time understanding how so many people got caught up in this fire?

Realize a few things:

1. I have never been to Hawaii, so besides what I know about tropical islands from Gilligan's Island, I don't know anything about the terrain.
2. Was/is the terrain such that escape wasn't possible?
3. I hear reports that no warning was put out, yet, if you see a large wall of fire coming your direction wouldn't you leave?
4. Does Hawaii lack the infrastructure that most States have to be able to deal with something like this?

I have tried to watch some of the so called news reporting, but besides the emotional drama, there isn't much details there. I know you see reports in the wildfires out west of those that stay behind to defend their property, but I don't believe that was the case here. The largest brush/field fire I have dealt with was about 300 acres and the farmers did all the work while we took care of the hotspots and watched over a few buildings, you got to love those big disc. I fully realize brush/field fires in the Midwest are completely different than anything out west and I'm assuming, on an island.

So, I'm just having a hard time understanding this death toll and how it occurred.

Pretty much the 'Perfect Storm' with respect to the situation.

1. Very dry conditions. Basically a tinderbox of structures and brush for fuel.

2. Siren network (one of the largest in the world) was never activated. Perhaps already disabled by loss of power? Leaving cell phone and broadcast ability as the only warning system.

3. Fire advanced VERY rapidly. For the most part a low lying fire consuming and 'jumping' from one structure to the next. It is estimated that at certain times (driven by the wind) the fire advanced at nearly a mile a minute (that is 60 mph). In any case, it happened quickly if only 1/3 that speed.

4. A good number of the dead will be the elderly, either not aware of the approaching fire or unable to flee from it. It takes a while for a structure to burn down....but only seconds to succumb to the heat and smoke of wildfire. It was hot enough in some instances to melt metal.

Very sad event....but not altogether unpredictable.

Not really any different than those who live/build on the Southern Coastline (Stateside). Eventually.... a hurricane is going to effect you. Its a gamble.

 

[Bmyers]

Pretty much the 'Perfect Storm' with respect to the situation.

1. Very dry conditions. Basically a tinderbox of structures and brush for fuel.

2. Siren network (one of the largest in the world) was never activated. Perhaps already disabled by loss of power? Leaving cell phone and broadcast ability as the only warning system.

3. Fire advanced VERY rapidly. For the most part a low lying fire consuming and 'jumping' from one structure to the next. It is estimated that at certain times (driven by the wind) the fire advanced at nearly a mile a minute (that is 60 mph). In any case, it happened quickly if only 1/3 that speed.

4. A good number of the dead will be the elderly, either not aware of the approaching fire or unable to flee from it. It takes a while for a structure to burn down....but only seconds to succumb to the heat and smoke of wildfire. It was hot enough in some instances to melt metal.

Very sad event....but not altogether unpredictable.

Not really any different than those who live/build on the Southern Coastline (Stateside). Eventually.... a hurricane is going to effect you. Its a gamble.

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[dirtydeed]

Pretty much the 'Perfect Storm' with respect to the situation.

3. Fire advanced VERY rapidly. For the most part a low lying fire consuming and 'jumping' from one structure to the next. It is estimated that at certain times (driven by the wind) the fire advanced at nearly a mile a minute (that is 60 mph). In any case, it happened quickly if only 1/3 that speed.

I heard the same thing. The winds were gusting to 60 mph caused by some distant hurricane. The fire moved at about a mile/minute. Add to that the wind created by such a fire (sucking in air). I think you'd have to be very lucky to be able to outrun a blaze moving at that speed.

If you think about their siren systems, how would you know where to run? I would think that they'd typically head for high ground (tsunami, hurricanes, lava flows). The folks that survived, headed to the water line where accessible.

I just hope that DC gets off of their arses and starts sending massive help/resources to them...You know, instead of sending $$$ to other foreign countries that hate us.