Slow bucket

Ktrim

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B2400 la252 loader. Loader works great for about 45 minutes the starts getting slower to lift. New loader control valve didn't solve it. Ideas will be much appreciated.
 

TheOldHokie

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B2400 la252 loader. Loader works great for about 45 minutes the starts getting slower to lift. New loader control valve didn't solve it. Ideas will be much appreciated.
Time to do some real diagnostics. First guess would be a worn hydraulic pump.

Dan
 
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Ktrim

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Equipment
B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
423
332
63
Nazareth Pa
Time to do some real diagnostics. First guess would be a worn hydraulic pump.

Dan
Drained fluid and checked if screen was clogged. It wasn't. No issues. Put fluid back in now I have nothing. No pressure at all to loader control and no power steering.
Pump completely crapped out?
 

Roadworthy

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After draining all the fluid you may have to prime the pump by putting some hydraulic fluid into the input. As far as the slow loader, what's the position of your three point lever? If it's set to full up your hydraulic system may be in bypass. Back it off a tad. If that solves the problem your rock shaft probably needs adjusted. It is rare for the hydraulic pump to fail but it CAN happen.
 

TheOldHokie

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After draining all the fluid you may have to prime the pump by putting some hydraulic fluid into the input. As far as the slow loader, what's the position of your three point lever? If it's set to full up your hydraulic system may be in bypass. Back it off a tad. If that solves the problem your rock shaft probably needs adjusted. It is rare for the hydraulic pump to fail but it CAN happen.
Lets think about that. What happens in "full bypass"? You dont lose pressure at the loader. Just the opposite - the supply at the loader is maxed out at relief pressure.

The symptom reported was initially low pressure getting worse as the oil warmed up and now its no pressure at all. If that is accurate this is a pump or pump related problem. Pump fsilure is not uncommon - they all wear out. Age, contaminated oil, running dry, and/or running at excesdive pressure can and will kill a gear pump.

So time to step back and do a few simple tests. A good first step would be to take the oil delivery hose loose at the loader valve inlet snd check for flow and pressure. I think thats a LA351 so access should be pretty easy.

Testing flow is simple - put the end of the hose in the hydraulic filler and start the tractor. You should have a good garden hose supply coming out of the hose. If no flow then you can try coaxing the pump to prime with a slug of oil poured into the inlet port. If it wont prime there is a good chance its worn out.

Once ypu have flow testing the pump output pressure is a bit trickier. Its not clear to me where the main pressure relief is located.

Dan
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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Move the steering wheel back and forth to prime the pump.
If you loosing loader lift yet still have three point and steering, you have bad seals in the lift cylinders.
 

Ktrim

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Equipment
B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
423
332
63
Nazareth Pa
After draining all the fluid you may have to prime the pump by putting some hydraulic fluid into the input. As far as the slow loader, what's the position of your three point lever? If it's set to full up your hydraulic system may be in bypass. Back it off a tad. If that solves the problem your rock shaft probably needs adjusted. It is rare for the hydraulic pump to fail but it CAN happen.
Played with 3pt position, doesn't change. Loader works good then acts up I guess when it gets hot?
Lets think about that. What happens in "full bypass"? You dont lose pressure at the loader. Just the opposite - the supply at the loader is maxed out at relief pressure.

The symptom reported was initially low pressure getting worse as the oil warmed up and now its no pressure at all. If that is accurate this is a pump or pump related problem. Pump fsilure is not uncommon - they all wear out. Age, contaminated oil, running dry, and/or running at excesdive pressure can and will kill a gear pump.

So time to step back and do a few simple tests. A good first step would be to take the oil delivery hose loose at the loader valve inlet snd check for flow and pressure. I think thats a LA351 so access should be pretty easy.

Testing flow is simple - put the end of the hose in the hydraulic filler and start the tractor. You should have a good garden hose supply coming out of the hose. If no flow then you can try coaxing the pump to prime with a slug of oil poured into the inlet port. If it wont prime there is a good chance its worn out.

Once ypu have flow testing the pump output pressure is a bit trickier. Its not clear to me where the main pressure relief is located.

Dan
I have pressure gauge on fluid supply to the loader valve. No pressure at all.
Keith
 

TheOldHokie

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Played with 3pt position, doesn't change. Loader works good then acts up I guess when it gets hot?

I have pressure gauge on fluid supply to the loader valve. No pressure at all.
Keith
No pressure = no flow = no pump.= no loader. How can it be working good then bad with no.pressure at inlet?

Did you do ad suggedted and verify flow before jumping to a presdure test?

Dan
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I have pressure gauge on fluid supply to the loader valve. No pressure at all.
Keith
It's an open system, you don't get pressure until you block the flow by operating a valve.
It's normally easier to get pressure readings from the out put lines.

Restating:
If you loosing loader lift yet still have three point and steering, you have bad seals in the lift cylinders.
 

Ktrim

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B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
423
332
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Nazareth Pa
It's an open system, you don't get pressure until you block the flow by operating a valve.
It's normally easier to get pressure readings from the out put lines.

Restating:
If you loosing loader lift yet still have three point and steering, you have bad seals in the lift cylinders.
Was able to prime pump. Now have 800psi coming to loader valve. With a stethoscope I can hear pump running but does have some clattering in it.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Are you loosing power steering or three point operations when the loader slows or stops lifting?
 

Ktrim

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B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
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Nazareth Pa
Was able to prime pump. Now have 800psi coming to loader valve. With a stethoscope I can hear pump running but does have some clattering in it.
When the bucket issue happens it's only with weight in it. Lifts ok when empty
 

TheOldHokie

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Was able to prime pump. Now have 800psi coming to loader valve. With a stethoscope I can hear pump running but does have some clattering in it.
Do you hsve the gauge screwed directly on to the end of the pressure supply hose? Post a picture showing how you have it hooked up. If you are measuring pump outlet pressure @ 800 PSI either that pump is toast or the system relief is malfunctioning.

Dan
 
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Ktrim

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Equipment
B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
423
332
63
Nazareth Pa
Do you hsve the gauge screwed directly on to the end of the pressure supply hose? Post a picture showing how you have it hooked up. If you are measuring pump outlet pressure @ 800 PSI either that pump is toast or the system relief is malfunctioning.

Dan
I have since removed it, but this s where I had it attached.
 

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TheOldHokie

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I have since removed it, but this s where I had it attached.
If you had that hose screwed onto the stem of the gauge your pump pressure is way low. Really only two possibilities:
  1. The pump is worn out
  2. The pressure relief valve on the top of the pump is malfunctioning
Given that pressure drops when tje oil gets hotter maked 1 far more likely.

Dan
 

Ktrim

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Equipment
B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
423
332
63
Nazareth Pa
If you had that hose screwed onto the stem of the gauge your pump pressure is way low. Really only two possibilities:
  1. The pump is worn out
  2. The pressure relief valve on the top of the pump is malfunctioning
Given that pressure drops when tje oil gets hotter maked 1 far more likely.

Dan
I'll order one up. Thank you
Keith
 

Ktrim

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B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
423
332
63
Nazareth Pa
I just want to ne sure you got the ptessure test right. The gauge needs to be screwed directly onto the end of the pump supply hose as shown in this picture.

Dan


Yes
 

Ktrim

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B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
423
332
63
Nazareth Pa
New pump. 2800psi. 😁
Thanks for the assistance