Weak loader

[Colt]

M7060 with a LA1154 loader on it is extremely weak an won’t pic loader up unless your giving it throttle an still very weak. Any other ideas on what it could be

 

[RCW]

First I would do is disconnect, then reconnect all four quick couplers.

Lift is weak; is the curl function weak too?

Does steering and 3 point hitch work normally?

Do you have rear remotes or 3rd function?

 

[Colt]

First I would do is disconnect, then reconnect all four quick couplers.

Lift is weak; is the curl function weak too?

Does steering and 3 point hitch work normally?

Do you have rear remotes or 3rd function?

Yes curl is also weak!
everything works fine except loader functions. Have uncoupled an recouped all 4 lines to make sure in right places but still weak. You can use the loader as long as you keep the rpms up.

 

[Jchonline]

How old is the machine? Still under warranty?

Have you looked for visible leaks from any part of the hydraulic system? Is your fluid level good?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yes curl is also weak!
everything works fine except loader functions. Have uncoupled an recouped all 4 lines to make sure in right places but still weak. You can use the loader as long as you keep the rpms up.

How many hours?
Last service?
Last filter change?
Fluid levels / type of fluid?
Any added valves, like rear function or third function?

Set the three point control at any point near the middle, then recheck loader function.
If it improves then it needs the feed back linkage for the three point adjusted.
it's doing what they call going into bypass

 

[Colt]

How old is the machine? Still under warranty?

Have you looked for visible leaks from any part of the hydraulic system? Is your fluid level good?

Machine is Brand New off the truck. I work for Kubota an this one has everyone stumped. We’ve pressure tested off pump an coupler valve. Everything works perfectly except for loader. Just curious as to if anyone has dealt with any issues like this to give us something else to think about or try.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Machine is Brand New off the truck. I work for Kubota an this one has everyone stumped. We’ve pressure tested off pump an coupler valve. Everything works perfectly except for loader. Just curious as to if anyone has dealt with any issues like this to give us something else to think about or try.

Have you checked the line pressure in the power beyond line coming off the loader valve when it is in neutral and 3pt is in down position?

Dan

 

[Henro]

Machine is Brand New off the truck. I work for Kubota an this one has everyone stumped. We’ve pressure tested off pump an coupler valve. Everything works perfectly except for loader. Just curious as to if anyone has dealt with any issues like this to give us something else to think about or try.

Brand new off the truck?

I would think it is the dealer's issue and not yours.

OR a Kubota issue, and not yours...

Granted you are trying to help whoever is trying to solve the problem...that is to be commended.

BUT if brand new off the truck...the new owner should not have to find the solution to the issue. Just my honest opinion...

 

[TheOldHokie]

Brand new off the truck?

I would think it is the dealer's issue and not yours.

OR a Kubota issue, and not yours...

Granted you are trying to help whoever is trying to solve the problem...that is to be commended.

BUT if brand new off the truck...the new owner should not have to find the solution to the issue. Just my honest opinion...

Look carefully at what he said:

Machine is Brand New off the truck. I work for Kubota an this one has everyone stumped.

Dan

 

[RCW]

Have you checked the line pressure in the power beyond line coming off the loader valve when it is in neutral and 3pt is in down position?

Dan

Colt -- - We have many smart folks here on OTT.

If I were you, I'd pay particular attention to TheOldHokie's recommendation(s).

He seems to know this type of thing very well.

Good luck!

 

[Quick]

Set the three point control at any point near the middle, then recheck loader function.
If it improves then it needs the feed back linkage for the three point adjusted.
it's doing what they call going into bypass

I had to google this as I had no idea what a feedback linkage was. I'm a little smarter now, thank you!

Cool post! (-:

 

[TheOldHokie]

Colt -- - We have many smart folks here on OTT.

If I were you, I'd pay particular attention to TheOldHokie's recommendation(s).

He seems to know this type of thing very well.

Good luck!

Thanks for the plug. I know nothing about this machine so all I can do is try to envision reasons for the loader to be "weak".

Wolfman hinted at it in his post - the downstream side of the power beyond port on the loader valve may be blocked and back pressuring the loader cylinders. So start looking for anomalies in the circuits. Putting a pressure gauge on the power beyond port on the loader valve line will tell you if the path to tank is open or not. If it is open then the problem is upstream of the gauge. If its blocked the problem is downstream of the gauge.

Dan

 

[ruger1980]

I would ask if the issue is that it is slow, or weak and not able to lift or curl under a load, or both.
Have you installed a flow meter in the circuit? Flow meters are not usually my go to in diagnosis but this case it does seem appropriate.

 

[Dave_eng]

My M77040 tractor with LA1153 has a very similar setup.
If a rear remote is stuck in any ON position the loader is very weak.
Exercise the remotes making certain they return to the neutral position.
Dave

 

[TheOldHokie]

My M77040 tractor with LA1153 has a very similar setup.
If a rear remote is stuck in any ON position the loader is very weak.
Exercise the remotes making certain they return to the neutral position.
Dave

Does it block bucket as well as lift?. The problem report is both which is giving me pause. The bucket on these valves typically regens or returns to tank.

Dan

 

[RCW]

Thanks for the plug. I know nothing about this machine so all I can do is try to envision reasons for the loader to be "weak".

Wolfman hinted at it in his post - the downstream side of the power beyond port on the loader valve may be blocked and back pressuring the loader cylinders. So start looking for anomalies in the circuits. Putting a pressure gauge on the power beyond port on the loader valve line will tell you if the path to tank is open or not. If it is open then the problem is upstream of the gauge. If its blocked the problem is downstream of the gauge.

Dan

The plug is well-deserved. You obviously have some theories.

Point taken. As I said to Colt; lots of smart folks here.

Not detracting from anyone else's expertise.

I'm not one of the experts, but sometimes know the questions that allow the more astute to ascertain the root cause(s).

Our mission is to help someone fix their problems..... glad you guys are on it.

If a fact, Colt is a K employee, and that it's stumped K is not lost here; Colt came to OTT for help, for good reason.

 

[Dave_eng]

Does it block bucket as well as lift?. The problem report is both which is giving me pause. The bucket on these valves typically regens or returns to tank.

Dan

I notice it on all loader functions. Suddenly everything is sluggish and weak. I grab the two remote valve levers and move them back and forth and suddenly all is well again.

I agree with the valve being a regen type but this is how I experience the condition.

From Loader WSM:
Return oil from the bucket cylinder (9) flows from the B2 port to the passage 2 (8), and flows to the A2 port together with the pressure-fed oil from the P port.
As a result, the dump speed is increased

Dave

 

[TheOldHokie]

I notice it on all loader functions. Suddenly everything is sluggish and weak. I grab the two remote valve levers and move them back and forth and suddenly all is well again.

I agree with the valve being a regen type but this is how I experience the condition.

From Loader WSM:
Return oil from the bucket cylinder (9) flows from the B2 port to the passage 2 (8), and flows to the A2 port together with the pressure-fed oil from the P port.
As a result, the dump speed is increased

Dave

What's bothering me is I cannot reconcile that description of the regen flow and the described behavior. I have the WSM for the LA525 and it has the same flow description. The flow diagram also shows P disconnected from PB and connected to A. If a downstream valve is affecting the cylinder circuit PB must still be at least partially connected. And even then the unequal piston areas should still actuate the rod.

The curl function in my WSM shows P disconnected from PB and cylinder connected to T. Again , no way for a downstream device to block the cylinder.

I have included pictures of the flow diagrams for boom cylinder and regen. The boom actuator is in series with PB and will be affected by any downstream load. The dump function appears to be completely disconnected from PB and should not be affected by a downstream load or device.

In any event my original diagnostic suggestion stands. Put a pressure gauge on the PB circuit coming out of the loader valve as I have sketched in on teh boom diagram. Looking at the parts breakdown for that tractor it should be easy to insert the tee on the PB port on the hydraulic block. With all valves in neutral the pressure in that circuit should be pretty low - 100 PSI or so. If it is not something downstream of the gauge is obstructing the path to tank.

Dan

Regen Circuit

Boom Lift Circuit

 

[torch]

Machine is Brand New off the truck. I work for Kubota an this one has everyone stumped.

You should have led with that. ;-) This group is used to persons of unknown skill coming for help, so the default expectation of skill, experience and available diagnostic tools is somewhat lower than that of a professional.

Does this tractor have power steering? Could this be a priority issue? I would think that the greater flow demands of a FEL would be more apparent than that of a 3ph so the root cause could be common to both even if not immediately obvious.

 

[Colt]

Brand new off the truck?

I would think it is the dealer's issue and not yours.

OR a Kubota issue, and not yours...

Granted you are trying to help whoever is trying to solve the problem...that is to be commended.

BUT if brand new off the truck...the new owner should not have to find the solution to the issue. Just my honest opinion...

That is right! We already filed a case with Kubota an they are sending someone from corporate to come look at issue. Since I work for Kubota we can only do so much because of a Brand New Machine. I was just checking with others to see if it was just something simple that we could do that possibly had been over looked or possibly it’s more an out of our hands. I appreciate all the input from everyone an once they figure it out I’ll post the problem Incase anyone runs into this again in future!! Thanks