Here is one article on it:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...rmers-need-a-better-way-to-fix-their-tractors
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...rmers-need-a-better-way-to-fix-their-tractors
I wonder about new Kubota tractors...
- Thread starter SidecarFlip
- Start date
I was OK with the Mahindra in general. These were 38 HP tractors (2538 & 2638). I was shopping for a 40 HP cabbed tractor with A/C. They had brand new models of both the then-current tractor plus the one they just rolled out last November-ish. The thing I couldn't get past is how small the cab was. My body just didn't fit well.
RCW
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
BX2360, FEL, MMM, BX2750D snowblower. 1953 Minneapolis Moline ZAU
I have a couple buddies with the smaller versions - B series-type. Both have been very happy.
One is having some starting issues in the cold.
Some might be due to his poor service attention
, but he's also having some problems with dealer support. Tough part is the dealer is a friend of mine, and he apparently is/has sold the dealership...but that can happen regardless of the tractor color...
I don***8217;t understand all the worry about the new tractors. Why give ur self an ulcer worrying about something that may or may not happen. The 3350 had issues as the forum shows. However there are hundreds sold of other models and the forum shows nothing but happy kubota owners with regular and tier 4 tractors. Address the issues as they come up and try not have the tractor broke down and worthless in the next few years when you really have no idea. IMHO. I like the new kubota forum update ideas. That u can speculate will be worth it in the future. Happy tractoring.
Candidly, it don't matter to me in as much as I'll never own a tier 4 tractor but it 's apparent to me that the post 4 issues are making my pre 4 tractors worth a helluva lot more than I though they were.
Potential buyers are looking at well maintained pre 4 units as opposed to post 4 units, especially in the +60 pto range. I depend on my tractors for farming and I don't want emissions component problems when it's time to plant or harvest.
Might not be a big deal for a casual user but I'm not. My units are for making money. Like the old saying that farmers use...
'It don't break in the barn'. That applies here in spades... and I certainly don't want issues I cannot deal with myself and emissions related issues always wind up with dealer involvement, something I cannot tolerate. downtime for me (when I need them) is very costly.
Potential buyers are looking at well maintained pre 4 units as opposed to post 4 units, especially in the +60 pto range. I depend on my tractors for farming and I don't want emissions component problems when it's time to plant or harvest.
Might not be a big deal for a casual user but I'm not. My units are for making money. Like the old saying that farmers use...
'It don't break in the barn'. That applies here in spades... and I certainly don't want issues I cannot deal with myself and emissions related issues always wind up with dealer involvement, something I cannot tolerate. downtime for me (when I need them) is very costly.
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Kind of like me. Sure, I have a cell phone. I never text or surf the web on it. It's for communication if I need it. Nothing more.Our neighbor farmers were 3 brothers - milked about 80, plus feed for them and picked about 1,500 acres of shell corn.
They've parted ways for retirements, etc., but they are all hard working guys still.
While they're not ones to buy new, they had 2- Case 4490's 4WD, another articulating Oliver 4WD, and bought a Versatile 895 10 years ago.
When bought, most of those were 30+ years old and they probably got them for cheap $/HP. That's likely changed in the last 20 years.
They can fix anything they drive. They can make/fabricate some cool stuff...firewood box add-on for corn dryer, firewood processor, etc...they're ingenious..
Their cell phones make calls, nothing more. They are almost computer illiterate.
They are the perfect reason why pre-Tier IV, or even pre-computerized get the long dollar now. Why to heck would I want something I can't fix???
Recently a member posted a link about the popularity of pre-computerized tractors from the '80's....made me think of those 3 brothers...
I have a lot of respect for their abilities and business sense.
You'll never see me use Tap-A-Talk to post on here or anywhere else. That app isn't on my phone, never will be. Not interested.
I can fix anything on any piece of equipment I own but I cannot fix the electronic stuff so I don't have any, or at least not much. My NH round baler is computerized and that kind of worries me, but so far it's been flawless. If I did have an issue that was electronics related, the dealer would have to come out and I'd be paying 150 bucks an hour to get it fixed... hopefully it never fails. Fingers crossed on that score.
I'm old school and I'll admit it. The less gadgetry the better in my view. Wife has a Suburban that is loaded with that crap. I can change the fluids but I'm lost with the rest. Has to go to the dealer and the dealer isn't cheap. Has an idiot light on right now. Told her to put a piece of tape over it.
What’s happening in the short term is that tractor manufacturers are doing as little as possible to improve technology. The reason is that they are hedging their bets as to whether ICE will persist or will be replaced by battery electric versions. It’s no different than what’s happening with trucks, cars and SUVs.
Was over on TBYNet and saw a Kioti thread where the owner was having emissions issues and the dealer charged him for the repairs. Told him to write to Kioti and remind them that the Fed mandates 5 years on emissions components and / or get a lawyer. he's into emissions components to the tune of 2200 bucks already.
Was talking to Keith (the owner of the Kubota dealership I deal with and he told me, the biggest issue they have with the new common rail tier 4 final engines is, owners don't read the manuals concerning regen and they also over ride the regen using the button when it's not convenient. he said you can only do that so many times and the engine derates and it's a trip to the dealer. if in fact that is true, I don't know because it don't impact me.
Like I said a while ago, the only impact I see is what my pre 4 tractors are worth today. Amazing.
I don't believe I'll ever see a viable electric tractor or a hydrogen fuel cell tractor in my lifetime, at least one I can afford.
Was talking to Keith (the owner of the Kubota dealership I deal with and he told me, the biggest issue they have with the new common rail tier 4 final engines is, owners don't read the manuals concerning regen and they also over ride the regen using the button when it's not convenient. he said you can only do that so many times and the engine derates and it's a trip to the dealer. if in fact that is true, I don't know because it don't impact me.
Like I said a while ago, the only impact I see is what my pre 4 tractors are worth today. Amazing.
I don't believe I'll ever see a viable electric tractor or a hydrogen fuel cell tractor in my lifetime, at least one I can afford.
For kicks, I went to Craigslist in my area and typed in Deere just to see what the results would be. 30 to 40 year old machines were virtually non-existent. Perhaps it is chance there aren't many right now, but that was not the case too terribly long ago when I last looked.
Kind of makes me happy I bought my old junky 2030 Deere a few years back.
Kind of makes me happy I bought my old junky 2030 Deere a few years back.
My first tractors were gasoline powered and I did fine with them. I could easily go back to a gas job if necessary. Besides, gas is cheaper than diesel. I got my first diesel because back then diesel was cheaper, that advantage went out the window, long ago.... and, the emissions hardware on gas motors is actually reliable now. Might be a very distinct possibility in as much as gas motors are much less polluting from the get go (no visible particulates ((soot).
There is a thread that may interest you on TBYNet put up by Minnesota Eric about deleting the emissions hardware and software on his Kioti (yes, Kioti is having issues too).
I made a comment and was immediately told I was closed minded. I'm not by a long shot. Irregardless, he goes into great detail about how to modify the ECM and how to remove the emissions hardware and remove the DPF and while all well and good, what that does is make you the owner of that unit, forever and if you ever decide to sell it, you are also responsible if the next owner needs service at an authorized dealer and that dealer plugs into the serial port and their scan tool tells them the systems aren't in compliance.
I don't care if you do that, you own it. Just be apprised that down the road, if you sell the unit, you are still responsible for any modifications that delete or render inoperative any emissions component.
...and it's a Federal Law that tampering with mandated emissions hardware or software is a violation of the law.
The first thing any authorized dealer will do is plug in the scan tool to diagnose any issue, emissions related or not and the scan tool will inform the tech right away that the systems have been tampered with and that right there is the end because no authorized dealer can repair a unit that has been modified. How it works. If any authorized dealer does work on a deleted unit, they can be held liable under Federal Law (or Canadian Law if Canada) and or lose their license as an authorized dealer.
I don't make the rules and I don't like it but being an adult, I comply.
I have a good friend who owns 53 VoMack class 8 road tractors. he's also a certified VoMack dealer. He deletes every one of his tractors. However, all the delete parts from each tractor is stored away so when the time comes to sell them, he reinstalls the emissions hardware and software because he knows that the next owner would not be able to have that tractor serviced at any VoMack dealer.
You might find Eric's thread interesting, but be apprised that deleting emissions components and modifying the ECU will result in that unit basically being unmarketable and if you sell it modified, you've sold it under false pretenses. I certainly don't want to be in that boat.
There is enough Kubota techs on here that I'm sure will tell you the same thing. Like the ROPS thing, sure you can but it also defeats any warranty now or down the road.
Little FYI there.
I made a comment and was immediately told I was closed minded. I'm not by a long shot. Irregardless, he goes into great detail about how to modify the ECM and how to remove the emissions hardware and remove the DPF and while all well and good, what that does is make you the owner of that unit, forever and if you ever decide to sell it, you are also responsible if the next owner needs service at an authorized dealer and that dealer plugs into the serial port and their scan tool tells them the systems aren't in compliance.
I don't care if you do that, you own it. Just be apprised that down the road, if you sell the unit, you are still responsible for any modifications that delete or render inoperative any emissions component.
...and it's a Federal Law that tampering with mandated emissions hardware or software is a violation of the law.
The first thing any authorized dealer will do is plug in the scan tool to diagnose any issue, emissions related or not and the scan tool will inform the tech right away that the systems have been tampered with and that right there is the end because no authorized dealer can repair a unit that has been modified. How it works. If any authorized dealer does work on a deleted unit, they can be held liable under Federal Law (or Canadian Law if Canada) and or lose their license as an authorized dealer.
I don't make the rules and I don't like it but being an adult, I comply.
I have a good friend who owns 53 VoMack class 8 road tractors. he's also a certified VoMack dealer. He deletes every one of his tractors. However, all the delete parts from each tractor is stored away so when the time comes to sell them, he reinstalls the emissions hardware and software because he knows that the next owner would not be able to have that tractor serviced at any VoMack dealer.
You might find Eric's thread interesting, but be apprised that deleting emissions components and modifying the ECU will result in that unit basically being unmarketable and if you sell it modified, you've sold it under false pretenses. I certainly don't want to be in that boat.
There is enough Kubota techs on here that I'm sure will tell you the same thing. Like the ROPS thing, sure you can but it also defeats any warranty now or down the road.
Little FYI there.
LNG has it's own issues, mainly storage on a vehicle (or tractor) and fueling. Why UPS tried it and has gotten away from it. Not prudent or profitable for them.
Because LNG has to be stored under very high pressure, the containment vessel has to be thick and heavy and fueling is an issue because fueling involves special fittings and can only be done by certified and trained people so, if you had an LNG powered tractor, you would not be able to just 'fuel it up; from a can in the garage. You have to go to a fueling station to fuel it. Finally, the transfer of LNG to the pressure vessel is slow. I guess you could 'exchange' tanks like you do with propane but the LNG 'bottle' will be very heavy and again, the 'hookup's' are very specialized so it would be difficult to exchange tanks.
Was at the Louisville truck show some years back and Freightliner had a show truck there that was LNG powered. The entire back of the cab (was a day cab) was stacked with pressure vessels.
Neat concept, practical, not really. In reality, propane would be ideal because it stores under lower pressure but, it's not 'green' because propane is made from petroleum. It's cracked before gasoline comes off.
To me I am surprised we don't have electric tractors already. With cars battery weight and range is an issue but in tractors weight is not and range in distance (if not hours) is much shorter and you are never far from charging. Electric motors have lots of torque and have a lot less parts to break too. I would love an electric tractor.
Magicman
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
M4900 Utility Special 4WD e/w FEL & 1530 John Deere "Traveling Man"
I love a turbo engine, but my tractor use would have to be classified as occasional. The old 1530 JD has it's jobs and this "new" M4900 with a FEL will have it's jobs.
My heavily used Diesel with a turbo is the sawmill and as you mentioned, even with earplugs, hearing that turbo spool up is music to my ears. The torque comparison to the same engine without a turbo is no comparison. (Yes, I have both.)
Back to pre Tier 4 tractors, yes, they are holding their value which I quickly found out when I was in the "buying" market. I doubt that either of my tractors will ever be worth less than they are valued at now. Maybe more.
My heavily used Diesel with a turbo is the sawmill and as you mentioned, even with earplugs, hearing that turbo spool up is music to my ears. The torque comparison to the same engine without a turbo is no comparison. (Yes, I have both.)
Back to pre Tier 4 tractors, yes, they are holding their value which I quickly found out when I was in the "buying" market. I doubt that either of my tractors will ever be worth less than they are valued at now. Maybe more.
I'm going to disagree with the comments here. I don't think having electronically-controlled direct fuel injection makes a tractor inherently unreliable. Nor do I think having an electronically-controlled emissions after-treatment system creates a reliability concern, either.
A tractor, which often runs at high RPMs for long periods of time, is actually ideal for having a DPF. Much more so than a road-going vehicle which varies RPM a lot more.
Common rail direct injected fuel systems increase power and fuel economy while reducing emissions. Yes, it is controlled by an ECU. This is no different than almost every newer vehicle on the road today. The after-treatment system consisting of cooled EGR, DOC, DPF, and SCR for higher horsepower units is very reliable. Yes, it is another component that may need to be repaired down the road...but there are plenty of things that need to be repaired on older tractors as well. Don't fool yourself.
My trucks are all modern Ford or Dodge diesels with EGR+DOC+DPF+SCR. None of had a DPF failure or need to be cleaned. I've experienced a couple of sensor failures (delta pressure sensor and one NOx sensor) plus a DEF tank heater. None of this is tremendously expensive or difficult to replace. In fact, on a truck, a simple OBDII scanner will reveal the problem. Buy the parts and change yourself if out of warranty.
I'm on my second Kubota with common rail, cooled EGR, DOC and DPF. No problems so far. I've experienced multiple regens without issue. While working, an orange light comes on for about 20 minutes, then disappears. That is no big deal. Kubota also has a button to perform a manually commanded regen. Its a nicer system than on a truck. Flip is complaining about $1000 DPF on a $100k tractor? Seems like a small thing.
I'm a big Trump supporter, but I have no complaint about a smoother, quieter diesel that doesn't smoke or smell. Nothing like having a diesel headache from breathing exhaust after 6 hours of mowing.
A tractor, which often runs at high RPMs for long periods of time, is actually ideal for having a DPF. Much more so than a road-going vehicle which varies RPM a lot more.
Common rail direct injected fuel systems increase power and fuel economy while reducing emissions. Yes, it is controlled by an ECU. This is no different than almost every newer vehicle on the road today. The after-treatment system consisting of cooled EGR, DOC, DPF, and SCR for higher horsepower units is very reliable. Yes, it is another component that may need to be repaired down the road...but there are plenty of things that need to be repaired on older tractors as well. Don't fool yourself.
My trucks are all modern Ford or Dodge diesels with EGR+DOC+DPF+SCR. None of had a DPF failure or need to be cleaned. I've experienced a couple of sensor failures (delta pressure sensor and one NOx sensor) plus a DEF tank heater. None of this is tremendously expensive or difficult to replace. In fact, on a truck, a simple OBDII scanner will reveal the problem. Buy the parts and change yourself if out of warranty.
I'm on my second Kubota with common rail, cooled EGR, DOC and DPF. No problems so far. I've experienced multiple regens without issue. While working, an orange light comes on for about 20 minutes, then disappears. That is no big deal. Kubota also has a button to perform a manually commanded regen. Its a nicer system than on a truck. Flip is complaining about $1000 DPF on a $100k tractor? Seems like a small thing.
I'm a big Trump supporter, but I have no complaint about a smoother, quieter diesel that doesn't smoke or smell. Nothing like having a diesel headache from breathing exhaust after 6 hours of mowing.
>Troverman
That is how you run your tractor.
My tractor rarely sees full throttle. Rarely runs for hours at a time, rarely runs at a constant throttle. It does plenty of work, just never full throttle in a field.
The whole DPF method currently used,
Will require more engine run hours. How many will depend on tractor use.
Will require more full throttle use.
Will burn MORE diesel.
Will cost thousands more to maintain in the normal lifetime of a tractor (not including depreciation for added hours)
The whole DPF method currently used,
Has cost owners tons of money and lost productivity
Has cost Kubota tons of money and lost productivity.
To suggest it is all rosey is just wrong.
That is how you run your tractor.
My tractor rarely sees full throttle. Rarely runs for hours at a time, rarely runs at a constant throttle. It does plenty of work, just never full throttle in a field.
The whole DPF method currently used,
Will require more engine run hours. How many will depend on tractor use.
Will require more full throttle use.
Will burn MORE diesel.
Will cost thousands more to maintain in the normal lifetime of a tractor (not including depreciation for added hours)
The whole DPF method currently used,
Has cost owners tons of money and lost productivity
Has cost Kubota tons of money and lost productivity.
To suggest it is all rosey is just wrong.