Legal Lazy

[skeets]

I just read where the Canucks have approved marijuana legal for recreational use while I disagree this is not the question.
DUI in each state has a legal limit of alcohol consumption, that when exceeded puts you in violation of the law, not that any one in here has ever done anything like that.
Now the question I have is how can a person be considered to be under the influence of weed?
We have tests for alcohol, but as far as I can find out nothing to determine for drugs, without blood work and so on.
And what are the legal limits, how can they be enforced, can they be enforced and what are my legal rights?
Maybe I am over thinking this, but impairment is impairment no matter what cause, I have seen it underground and dead is freekin dead.
And what happens when someone doing a lefty crashes in to your kids.
Sorry but I see this as a big dog waiting to bite someone right in the ass. Anyone have a logical answer for me?

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Re: I have a question

Not sure how they do it but weed shops are all over Phoenix and the Sheriff released numbers that show a marked increase in impaired driving. Whether on prescription drugs, opioids, or pot, they are doing blood tests either in the hospital or after busted sobriety field exams.

Phoenix has had a sharp uptick in wrong-way driver accidents. All of those drivers were suspected to be under the influence, usually alcohol. But, after the person under the influence checks out after slamming head on into an off-duty cop just trying to get home to his family, I don't think they can do blood tests on human remains.

So, what are the chances we'll ban alcohol? Didn't work out very well last time they tried it. I think the dope stores mean its here to stay. But, if banning guns solves armed violence problems in this country, why not ban booze? And pot? Or cars?

An honest question...

 

[shootem604]

Re: I have a question

There's an outfit here in Canada making a saliva tester I think, but the science is still being tested.

The existing laws in Canada cover it off - impaired driving includes drugs already, and there are federal and provincial careless/unsafe driving laws. The only one that doesn't come into play is the "driving over .08 law" as there isn't enough science yet for a marijuana equivalent.

I saw a recent article from Colorado - 4 fold increase in traffic incidents where marijuana was a factor.

 

[skeets]

Re: I have a question

Like the LEOs job aint tough enough ,,, thanks

 

[tlefire]

Ok Skeets, let's have a small history lesson. I know you will remember when it was called DWI. What did that stand for? Yep, you're right, driving while intoxicated. Second question. Intoxicated on what? Yep, right again, alcohol.

So as laws were refined, DWI became DUI, or driving under the influence. But with that, influence would include not only alcohol, but pot, cocaine, heroin, etc.....and yes even some prescribed medication even if it was prescribed to you.

Most know the legal limit of alcohol was less than .07 in most states. Anything .08 or greater was considered to be driving under the influence. You're arrested, spend a minimal number of hours in jail to sober up, and then allow to bond out.. .08 is the state law with no officer discretion. Anything under .08 you can still be arrested under officer discretion after failing a number of test used to determine impairment. These are approved test and the officer giving the test must be certified to administer these test. Even using a hand held breathalyzer, he or she must be certified. These test would cover all illegal drugs and even prescription drugs. You've seen the test on tv I'm sure. Walk a straight line, stand on one foot with your other foot 6 inches off the ground, saying the alphabet, etc. The officer always ask if they have any medical reason they cannot do the test. Any refusal, and you're automatically arrested. Departments also get warrants to have blood drawn.

Now. The the officer giving the test becomes the arresting officer and testifies in court with any evidence he may have, including video. The officer that originally initiated the stop testifies as to probable cause for stopping the vehicle. And yes, you can be arrested for DUI while riding a bicycle being operated on a road.

All that, for this........DUI is DUI not matter what you have in your system.

 

[skeets]

See this is where I have a problem, we all know that alcohol is reactive with the lungs and is exhaled with each breath and so we can set a base line, we all agree.
How does an LEO determine tif I am impaired? I am riding with you, your doing a lefty and Im not, now the smell will periate my clothing as well as yours, now we get pulled over LEO says get out of the car, walk the line,, officer I just finished a 14 hour shift and I cant hardly see I just want to go home to bed.
We both stink, I have been breathing the same air as you in the car, even with the window down. Am I guilty of being under the influence as well. What is the legal limit of THC in the blood stream before someone is considered impaired?
See all Im saying is that I can see a real can of worms, because there is, as far as I can find out, there is no way to determine the threshold limit and dragging someone off the the hospital for blood work is not going to be the most promtue thing to do at the time. Tying up man power and medical physicalities not to mention the cost.
People talk stupid to LEOs when they are sober, people drive like fools sober. Like I said there are way to many studies in states where it is legal that show that TA's are on the rise from legal weed.
I just want to know what tools an LEO has to go with, other than the almost 99% right gut feeling, which will get thrown out in court.
The LEOs job is tough enough with out this tossed on top.

 

[torch]

Right now the only roadside test for weed is a subjective evaluation by the LEO. Unfortunately, the process is flawed and there are many cases of false positives. In one case an accident victim was arrested for impaired driving when the accident was actually caused by the stroke he was having. Treatment was delayed for hours while he was in custody. In another case the driver suffered a head injury as a result of the accident, the symptoms of which led the officer to believe the driver was impaired. Again, the driver was incarcerated instead of hospitalized.

There's going to be a lot of problems caused by this legislation. They didn't think it through and don't have measures in place to deal with the problems. In other words: Just like any government project.

 

[torch]

officer I just finished a 14 hour shift and I cant hardly see I just want to go home to bed.

In Canada, being overtired to the point were it can affect your ability is also considered impaired driving. If you have an accident and admit to nodding at the wheel you will face the same charge and penalties as driving drunk or drugged. Just tell the cop "I don't remember what happened".

 

[tlefire]

Right now the only roadside test for weed is a subjective evaluation by the LEO. Unfortunately, the process is flawed and there are many cases of false positives. In one case an accident victim was arrested for impaired driving when the accident was actually caused by the stroke he was having. Treatment was delayed for hours while he was in custody. In another case the driver suffered a head injury as a result of the accident, the symptoms of which led the officer to believe the driver was impaired. Again, the driver was incarcerated instead of hospitalized.

There's going to be a lot of problems caused by this legislation. They didn't think it through and don't have measures in place to deal with the problems. In other words: Just like any government project.

May be that way in Canada but not here. There is a 12 step process, and if done correctly will stand up in court. In one study 96.7% of cases were upheld. One case went as far as to the Supreme Court and the process used was upheld.

The big problem is in training officers. To become a DRE (drug recognition expert) the cost is between 18,000 and 20,000 dollars.

I won't even comment on the stroke or head injury. All I can say is wow.

Skeet. Don't worry. Your biggest problem would be getting in a car with someone doing that left handed smoke. You wouldn't have to do any test. You ain't driving. Only way you'd go to jail is if weed were found on on you or in the car and the owner of said weed does not take ownership of the weed. Then you'd be arrested for possession.

 

[twomany]

Driving impaired, like driving "distracted" , does not require quantification.

You can get a "driving impaired" citation for being over tired. Don't drive impaired! There are lives at stake.

 

[tlefire]

In Canada, being overtired to the point were it can affect your ability is also considered impaired driving. If you have an accident and admit to nodding at the wheel you will face the same charge and penalties as driving drunk or drugged. Just tell the cop "I don't remember what happened".

Unfortunately that's part of what's wrong with society today. And no, this is not directed at you.

How about be a man and take responsibility for your actions.

 

[skeets]

How about be a man and take responsibility for your actions.

That my friend is something that has gone away, along with pride in one self, and respect for others. Don't get me wrong if you enjoy a toke, thats your business, none of mine. Even though I am additmitaly against it, again if the law says you can ,well end of story.
I was asking a question , not trying to start any kind of war. I do however think things like this effect everyone on or off the road working in a factory or underground. And I just dont know how the enforcement of DUI for weed will be enforced.
Marijuana is classified as a Schedule I substance, which is the ranking reserved for drugs with the greatest potential for abuse and with no medicinal value. The medial value is still in the air.
And I thank you all for a spirited and insightful conversation, which has been very civil and courteous.
I asked this same question on another site, and talk about the feedback pretty much all bad toward me even thinking of asking how to enforce weed DUI laws ahh well "C'est la vie"
Yall have a wonderful day

 

[sheepfarmer]

Apologize for rant so early in the morning, but as far as taking responsibility goes, we have a lot of South American residents wanting to escape drug cartels by fleeing to the United States. The biggest customer of the cartels is the US. The individuals buying illegal drugs are therefore directly responsible for that problem. In spite of ample warning that these drugs are dangerous, bad for your health, and addictive, people and kids just HAVE to try them. Ticks me off. A whole bunch of problems would go away if people just stopped taking and buying "recreational" drugs...especially those other than marijuana. There are so many other ways of having fun, like driving orange tractors

 

[torch]

The medial value is still in the air.

There is substantial documentation that certain compounds ("cannabinoids") in marijuana have medical value. EG: CBD is an effective treatment for certain types of epilepsy.

However, what other prescription comes with dosage determined by the patient, in an unrefined form and is administered by smoking? Can you imagine a doctor prescribing, say, poppy plants for pain relief or tobacco for vitamin B? Much (most?) of the "medical use" today is just bunk: a smokescreen for recreational use. If it was a real medical application, 9 times out of 10 it could be separated from the psychoactive compound (THC)

The biggest problem with the criminalization of marijuana is the impairment of research into any possible medical uses. Even heroin has a legitimate and well documented medical application and it is widely acknowledged to be a far more dangerous drug than THC. So maybe the benefit of the Canadian experiment will be to expedite honest, independent, controlled research into the legitimate medical applications of the various cannabinoids.

 

[Daren Todd]

It baffles me how some people are with drugs. From pills, injectable's, to inhalents.

Have close relatives addicted to opioid pills. A step brother who is a meth head, and an old roommate that wouldn't do anything once he got home from work except mess with his weed.

The opioid addicts swear they are in "pain" so they can keep getting more pills. One of them said they had diabetic nerve pain, bad back, and a condition with there feet. But wasn't actually willing to do anything about it. Had to google the medical term for there feet since it sounds more impressive to say. What they need is some exercise to build there core muscles back up, lose 100 lbs, and get some good insoles for there shoes And man what a hateful, conniving, paranoid pair they are. Is it bad that I mess with there paranoia?

The meth head is still a meth head and haven't had contact with him for over 20 years.

As far as determining who is impaired and how they prove it. Well, they definitely got a challenge on there hands.

 

[KennedyFarmer]

They have the same tools for detecting it just as they do for the other stuff.

I would be more concern with the opiod abuse than the legalization of weed at this point.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

After college, I worked in a warehouse (Tower Hobbies -without heat) for seven months. My warehouse buddy and I got tickets to see Heart. He said he'd drive so I walked over to his place and we took his mint 1967 Monterrey that he got from his grandma. Halfway there he tells me his acid is kicking in. I said, "WHAT?"

He said its no use to take acid after you arrive at the concert because it really kicks in too late. So he started his tripping a few hours before we headed off. Thank God it wasn't far and it was mostly divided highways!

I sometimes wonder if that guy is still on this side of the grass.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

As a person that has owned a construction company for years, I've seen my share of drinkers and weed smokers and other things.

Drinkers...tend to be quick tempered and the longer the day the more unpredictable they get!

Weed smokers... Tend to be slow all day long and get even slower when you let them run off for lunch!
And if there is a couch anywhere around they'll be sitting on it!
Yea everyone says "I'm fine on it" "it just mellows me out".
That's fine on your time, but it always carries over to my time!

Hard drug users... 100% worthless in the long run!
Crack addicts lie and steal.
Coke addicts go off on a rage over anything.
Meth addicts run around in circles and get nothing done, then lie and steal!

 

[shootem604]

Heroin addicts can function in society for a time, but succumb to their addiction eventually.

I have an acquaintance in rehab for meth - this is probably his 6th time going clean.

There is no such thing as a recovered addict - they are always "recovering"

 

[AndyM]

I struggle with this one. The libertarian part of me thinks people should make their choices and live with the consequences. But, in a socialistic society (like Canada) we all end up paying the bill for the lack of productivity, health care costs and the "attitude" created by a drug tolerant culture. (whatever man...)

The cartels will always be the lowest cost producer and policing becomes impossible (how do you tell where it's from?), so I remain unconvinced it's a big help reducing criminality.

And then I just don't see where having more people incapable of rational thinking is a good thing.

I guess this qualifies as a rant.