If I ever catch the ...

[Buffalo]

cretin who designed the 2017 Ford Escape oil change system, I intend to
wreak great violence upon his person.

 

[Buffalo]

moron who designed the "electronics" on the 2017 Ford Escape, I intend to make him use the
dang thing forever. Who, in his right mind, would design a system that causes a car to die at
each intersection ? This behavior can be "turned off", with a button, that must be pushed whenever
you start the car. I really wish companies such as Ford would tell California that they need to quit trying to legislate ridiculous environmental junk, or Ford should just refuse to sell in California. California would re-examine their moronic policies quickly enough. The shoe is on the wrong foot.

 

[Daren Todd]

I'm a firm believer that the designer's need to spend some time in the shop working with what they design. Might make things more user friendly.

So, for those of us that don't know what the process is on the escape, can you fill us in?

Neighbor pimps used cars. Currently had a Mercedes SUV that does not have a oil drain plug. Had to go to the dealer to get serviced. According to the manual, it says it's due every 13,000 miles.

 

[85Hokie]

cretin who designed the 2017 Ford Escape oil change system, I intend to
wreak great violence upon his person.

O go ahead and explain the process - I need a laugh - and based on your description, it might not be funny, but I do need a laugh!

 

[sheepfarmer]

I'm a firm believer that the designer's need to spend some time in the shop working with what they design. Might make things more user friendly.

So, for those of us that don't know what the process is on the escape, can you fill us in?

Neighbor pimps used cars. Currently had a Mercedes SUV that does not have a oil drain plug. Had to go to the dealer to get serviced. According to the manual, it says it's due every 13,000 miles.

So they change out the whole engine every 13,000 miles??? Turn the car upside down and drain it out the dipstick hole or did that go too?

 

[Daren Todd]

So they change out the whole engine every 13,000 miles??? Turn the car upside down and drain it out the dipstick hole or did that go too?

There are several makes and models of lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and other high end cars that come without a drain plug. Dealer uses a machine to suck the oil out of the engine. It's to force a customer to have to bring the vehicle to the dealer for service. Coworker used to be a mechanic for GM and mentioned some of the other brands that had similar practices.

Not sure how they came up with the 13,000 mile between oil changes.

 

[ipz2222]

And on the Mercedes transmission that is in the chargers and some trucks, there is no dipstick to ck the trans fluid. There is a cap , but no stick. It's referred to as a "tool" and you must purchase it. What bu$%^!!!

 

[Buffalo]

To set the context, my wife had a 2016 Ford Escape which was the
easiest machine on which to change the oil that I have ever owned.
Everything is easy to reach, and clearly visible.

It wound up being totaled in a rear end collision in Dallas. At least
no one was hurt, and the other guy was at fault. We headed back to the
Ford house to get another new one, model 2017. I gave no thought at all to the
process for changing the oil after owning the 2016.

When the time came to change the oil in the 2017, I just ran it up on
the ramps and crawled under.

Whoops ! The 2017 has a fiber "shield" covering everything. It can be
removed, but requires a "torx" wrench, rather than an "allen" wrench.
I headed to town.

Grrr. No one had the wrench.

Given that we live in the hinterlands of Oklahoma (near Ada - the local philosophy is
that "if we don't have it, you don't need it"), it took a couple of days to
get a suitable torx wrench. I finally acquired one, and started over.

After removing the shield, I found out that the 2016 oil pan wrench was an "english" size,
but the 2017 is "metric". Back to town. A miracle transpired, and Home Depot actually had
one in the right size. Back to the job.

The oil actually flowed out of the pan !
The oil filter on the 2016 was easy to see and turn. It took a few minutes to actually
find the filter on the 2017. It's buried up under a maze of hoses in a different place.
At least it turned when I tugged. By now I was expecting a left handed thread or something.

On the 2016, the oil filter drops straight down and drains reasonably well. On the 2017
hot oil is guaranteed to splatter on everything in sight: hoses, oil pan, the ground, down
my arm to my elbow, and my glasses. I strongly suggest that it should be channeled instead
into the designer's underwear.

The new filter is the same as the old model, but requires a three-armed alien with
double joints on each of six fingers to turn the dang thing when it is finally aligned
in its proper place. Don't damage the hoses when you do that.

I put it all back together without incident.

On both the 2016 and 2017 there is a dashboard warning about "oil life". To reset
the oil warning on the 2016, one uses a menu entry on the "Info" system. To reset
the oil warning on the 2017, all you have to do is hold the accelerator and the
brake simultaneously to the floor while the ignition switch is turned to "accessory"
but the car is not running. Very intuitive. I actually found that in the manual
(eventually).

In short, it looks like Ford has taken something that was simple and deliberately made it
complicated, perhaps in an effort to force customers to pay exorbitant prices for
having dealers change the oil.

If the designer of this silly system was one of my freshman software design students,
I would flunk his ass on principle, just for trying to be smarter than he actually is.

I would make it stick, too.

 

[Buffalo]

Or ... 85Hokie - did you want me to describe the process of wreaking great violence on the
designer ? I thought you wanted me to describe the oil change. I do have some creative
ideas about violence on the designer, but they would not do for the faint of heart, or the public record either I expect.

 

[Daren Todd]

Oil changes at the Ford dealer are (quite surprisingly) fairly reasonable. It costs me around 70$ for my sierra or wrangler unlimited at the local speedy lube place. But I get full synthetic oil and they vacuum out the vehicle

My F550 service truck with the V10 gasser in it costs $60 at the Ford dealer

 

[Bulldog777]

Or ... 85Hokie - did you want me to describe the process of wreaking great violence on the
designer ? I thought you wanted me to describe the oil change. I do have some creative
ideas about violence on the designer, but they would not do for the faint of heart, or the public record either I expect.

Don't do it..... that would be premeditated. [emoji1]***129315;

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[85Hokie]

Or ... 85Hokie - did you want me to describe the process of wreaking great violence on the
designer ? I thought you wanted me to describe the oil change. I do have some creative
ideas about violence on the designer, but they would not do for the faint of heart, or the public record either I expect.

I read word for word the oil change and been there - done that, not on a ford but another fabulous make of car.....

but I am really waiting on part two? Like Daren said - an "engineer" should understand "simplicity" of something as simple as an oil change, that a typical "owner" would wish to do themselves.

so knives? guns? duct tape & bailing wire, long walk - short pier? OR tie him to the Escape and and place it in drive at 15 mph....and see if he can .......er. ...what's the word ?

E S C A P E ?

 

[Buffalo]

Dang right it's premeditated !

This requires deep thought to do correctly. A mere one-off, random
rusty butter knife is hardly sufficient. Cutting off a hind leg and beating him
to death with it is not sufficiently graphic.

This is actually going to be a real challenge to get right. I'm open to suggestion, but
I do suggest that appropriate solutions should include great mayhem, a lot of blood,
long suffering, and no collateral damage.

We do have tractors, with the ability to move mounds of earth, rocks, and other
helpful materials. Welding machines have potential, and clearly we have motivation.

After explanation, there is no jury that would return more than a misdemeanor indictment,
especially if they had to change their own oil.

 

[skeets]

https://youtu.be/tzsitQ76bYQ?t=18

 

[Lil Foot]

I agree that all engineers should have to live with the crap designs they come up with, and many should be flogged. While I hate difficult, messy oil changes, (ever do a Chrysler LHS or Yamaha Rhino?) planned failures engineered just to sell parts really make me angry.
I just replaced the glovebox latch on my '03 SuperDuty. The latch cannot be accessed without splitting the glued together inner & outer halves of the glovebox door, a PITA which usually results in breaking one or both halves. If you are skilled (lucky) enough to separate them, the latch sells for around $25. Two screws hold the latch, then glue (or in my case, helicoil & screw) the two halves back together. The part engineered to fail in short order is in the latch, a piece of plastic measuring .098 x .036 thick, which must carry ALL the loads associated with latching & unlatching the door. There is no logical reason for this area to be this small & weak, other than to fail prematurely. Most people & shops will not go through the hassle of changing the latch, so they just buy a complete replacement door at $160+.
Pics show the latch, and the "failure engineered" area in question.

 

[Grouse Feathers]

Anybody here ever try to get the spare tire off of a Chevy truck? In case the cable that holds the spare tire breaks, they added an extra latch to keep the tire falling off and bouncing down the road into a car. The latch really works those spare tires will never fall off. Then to make it even more difficult, supposedly you can use the jack to jack up the spare tire and it will release. But the jack isn't tall enough so they supply a two piece block to put under the jack when jacking up the spare tire. It only take 3 people, one under the truck to hold the two piece block in place, another one under the truck to hold the jack in place and the third in back to crank the jack... And the tire still will not release... Many expletives deleted.

 

[Yooper]

BTDT on the spare tire! Those tabs got to meet my grinder with a cut off wheel. Now it's like they were originally. I'm assuming some moron with the old system didn't jack it up far enough and it fell off going down the highway. You know the type. The ones going down the highway with the gas door open, turn signal on and the seat belt hanging out the door sparking on the road.

Hey Buffalo. You might be on to something. A NON California package available from the manufacturer. Well, we can dream can't we?...

 

[William1]

I worked on a Delorean back in the early 1980's. Volvo V5 engine. Frame cross member was about 1/4" in front of and blocking the oil drain bolt. Plenty of room for that member to of been even just an inch (if not four) further out. So to change the oil, you had to remove the motor and trans mounts. Easy to do but plain stupid.
Door locks too had a design flaw where they would jam. The windows did not go down in the car due to the angular door shape, you had a little window just large enough for you to stick your hand out to pay a toll. I had to bust out a window!
My friend that owned the car had a coat hanger he used to pop the lock from the inside.
Last time for me touching the pile of crap.
Don't get me started talking about Jaguar XKE's of the 1960's and 1970's, esp. the V12's.
I understood having to drop the engine on the original Porsche Turbos when they first came out. They had taken a stock car and it was modified, it was never intended to have all that plumbing. After a few years, they changed the car enough that plug changes were simple again.
Some design 'fails' do make sense if when looked at the big picture. Most are due to a complete lack of communication between groups in a business, now that each one is autonomous.
Most motorcycles, you can still do the top ends with the engine still in the frame, a few run cassette transmissions you can remove with the engine still in the frame.I have one MX bike I have to remove the exhaust and rear shock to pull the carb! Fortunately, regular jetting changes do not require the carb to be pulled.
To be fair, I have designed a few 'blunders' in my day. Starting at the beginning and at the end, realizing a wear part required complete disassembly that I had I made a little change during the design, I could of made simpler.

 

[Lil Foot]

Don't get me started on my wife's '86 Monte Carlo SS; without a doubt, the biggest piece of crap to ever come out of Detroit. I'm a pretty accomplished mechanic/technician/toolmaker, but the first water pump change started on a Friday at 4pm, finished on Sunday at 10 pm. First, half the stuff under the hood had to come off to get access, then I encountered SAE & metric hex head, SAE & metric 12 point head, Torx, SAE & metric Allen, Bristol, & square fasteners. And not the standard sizes everyone else uses, mostly all bastard sizes. I spent most of the time driving around to find all the special tools I needed. My tool inventory doubled to do that job.

 

[William1]

Opposite end of the spectrum, was working on the old Volvo B series engines of the 1970's into the 1980's. Many part changes did not require tools or if they did, minimal. A water pump and timing belt was two hose clamps, two bolts to pull the radiator, three for the pump and two for the timing belt. Tons of room to nearly walk around inside the engine bay. You could do the entire job in about an hour, if you took your time. Headlight changes (good old sealed beams) were tool-less jobs. Brake pads were removal of a wheel, tap out two pins that had spring loaded retaining balls. Remove a pad, press in the piston, install the new pad, remove the other pad, press in the piston, install the other pad, replace the pins. Reinstalling the wheel was the hardest and most time consuming part. The down side was perhaps
the 140 RWHP....
My wife has a Infinity QX50. I have the dealer do the oil changes the car is such a nightmare. Runs great but I keep getting $19.95 oil change coupons that include a loaner and a free wash (of the car, not me, I am a filthy pig Kubota dealer is just down the road so I go there and look around while the car is being dealt with.