Ice Crystals in the Diesel

[sheepfarmer]

Well if anyone had any doubts about using the Mr Funnel to filter fuel as it goes into the tank, today I could actually see the water that wasn't going to end up in the tank. When I got done filling up the tanks on the two tractors I could see particles in the sump and along the sides of the filter that were crystalline...and went away when I touched them. It's pretty cold here, not quite colder than a witch's heart, but close...

Worse yet I could see that there had been condensation that was frozen to the inside of the fuel cap and around the neck of the tank on the B2650.
It looks like the particular rough surface of that plastic tank is going to be a magnet for water to condense on.

Regrettably the B2650 does not come with a water separator like the 3560 does. So as mentioned elsewhere keeping everything full is good, including the diesel containers. But not always perfectly possible.

 

[tempforce]

the fuel filter will separate some water from the fuel. just keep a eye on the bowl. check it before each use during the winter. if the water is visible. unscrew the filter cover and dump the bowl. then re-install. you should be fine for the day.. wish they had a filter bowl with a drain screw on the bottom of them..

ps: be carefull not to loose the little rubber o-rings on the top of the fuel filter and the bowl..
replacements no longer come with a new filter.. you have to buy them separately.

 

[hiho silver]

7 below F yesterday and no problems here, either in the tractor or extra fuel cans. I did mix white bottle Power Service fuel conditioner before the cold weather set in.

 

[85Hokie]

Sheep,

tonight here (5 degrees F) WILL be colder than " a witch's heart"......


funny around these parts we use another part of the proverbial witch anatomy when speaking of coooolllld!

 

[sheepfarmer]

Sheep,

tonight here (5 degrees F) WILL be colder than " a witch's heart"......


funny around these parts we use another part of the proverbial witch anatomy when speaking of coooolllld!

To borrow skeet's term, "ta ta"?

 

[sheepfarmer]

I forgot to ask the question I had, which was how common is it to find ice in the fuel cap?

The last time I filled it I put the correct dose of Power Service for a whole tank in it, but that largely is a cetane boost in case there was too much summer diesel still mixed in. Not sure what else I should have done, but the ice in the cap sure got my attention. All the fuel I have put in it has been run through the Mr Funnel, the additives go in the tank first then the new fuel on top to mix it some.

Tempforce, I read the directions for changing fuel filter, do it when tank is half empty then fill to top to get it to start, have you found that to be necessary or did you find a part of the lines to put vice grips on or something? Yes a little valve at the top or bottom would be good.

 

[Technical Ted]

I'm lucky with my house... One end of my basement has a drive in section so I can keep my L3560 inside where the coldest it typically gets is low 40's F. So, even though it gets cold here in western NY, I have yet to see my glow plug indicator come on when starting. But, I do have/use a Mr. Funnel and use Stanadyne in my fuel.

Good luck and stay warm!
Ted

 

[pendoreille]

I have had downwards to -20F and so far no problems. It does not snow here at that temperature so have no had to start it. Just topped off fuel in tractor and no signs of ice/water/crystals anywhere.
Sheepfarmer...don't know if this helps but I add the Power Service to my storage container when about empty, then go to the station and fill up the container. I also get rid off the dregs in my waist container before going to the station.

 

[tcrote5516]

My heart broke this morning when for the first time ever my Kubota couldn't start on her own. Its built my confidence up so much over the last 4 years but my 4 year old battery wasn't up for the -7 temp. No fuel issues and it did turn over but I don't think the glow plugs were getting enough juice. Threw on a 15 amp charger for 5 minutes and she fired right up. I use the white bottle 911 treatment and have never had a fuel issue.

Blew the snow off the driveway this morning, packed the bags and I'm now typing this from my plane seat on my way to Vegas where I don't have to worry about snow or cold starts for the next 5 days!

 

[Grouse Feathers]

I have never seen ice in the fuel cap, but it would not surprise me. It would require right conditions of temperature and humidity for the ice to form, and the right conditions probably occur in Michigan. I would think it might happen on a day with high humidity with rising temperatures after a cold night. You take the tractor out of an unheated garage and the tractor is colder than the warming air. The tractor is loaded up blowing snow so the tank level is going down and sucking the moist air into the vent on the cap. Not sure you can prevent the condensation, you just hope it doesn't get bad enough to stop the tractor.

I have the same problem with condensation with the cast iron woodworking tools in my shop when ever it suddenly warms up and gets humid at the same time.

 

[WFM]

I too use the Power Service stuff in my fuel. I pour it in the can at the gas station before I fill it up. But no issues with icing , I did use my tractor the other day when we had -7*f below. I think the beet juice was slush in the tires. It felt like I was pushing snow with the bucket up. Lol. It was 'slugish' . I have seen depending on the temps and conditions a frost line on my tires showing the height of the beet juice in the tires.
-5*f below out right now here. I'll be using my tractor later today so this morning I'll be plugging in the block heater and taking a close look at the fuel bowl.

 

[BAP]

Frost on the under side of the cap and fuel tank neck is not uncommon at cold temperatures like zero or below.

 

[skeets]

Never heard "colder than a witch's heart heart" before . However colder than an old wh ,,,,, ahhhh errrr umm promiscuous ladies heart" that I have heard

 

[Toyboy]

The term around here is "colder then a well diggers a**"

 

[sheepfarmer]

The problem with the additives and the Mr Funnel water filter is that they affect the coating on the screen and may make it permeable to water. So the directions on the box say to put additives directly in the tank. This leaves the diesel in the storage container unprotected and relies on sloshing around in the tractor fuel tank for good mixing. This is probably ok, except maybe in the tractors that seem to have the tanks divided in half by the transmission, with the fill tube on one side.

 

[pendoreille]

love this group, always on a daily basis I learn something.
Just checked out Mr Funnel....dropped it in my wish list, next Amazon order

What about the winterblend additives at the pump.
Winterblend is more than just #1, right?
I also do not see a mention on Power Service label of any drier.
So far no moisture or water problems (wood knock). I do top off a lot and always when the tractor is warm. I also set the container nearer to the shop stove in the winter.

 

[Daren Todd]

I've seen the ice crystals in fuel systems, but not on a fuel cap. Wife had her fuel system in her car freeze up over the weekend. We had a small snow storm come through with temps in the low 20's during the day and around 10 degrees at night. Rare for our area She got home from work on Thursday, backed her car in by the garage so she could just drive out. Driveway has a decent slope away from the garage.

Snow storm hit Friday morning, so she took the truck since I was out of town. Used the truck Friday. Went out Saturday and her car wouldn't start. Would turn over great. Had her pick up some "heat" and dump into the gas tank today when she got home from work. When I got home, I grabbed her keys, and finally got it to fire. Figure she picked up some water when she filled her car Thursday night and iced up the pick up tube for her gas tank.

So it doesn't just happen to diesels

 

[Technical Ted]

The problem with the additives and the Mr Funnel water filter is that they affect the coating on the screen and may make it permeable to water. So the directions on the box say to put additives directly in the tank. This leaves the diesel in the storage container unprotected and relies on sloshing around in the tractor fuel tank for good mixing. This is probably ok, except maybe in the tractors that seem to have the tanks divided in half by the transmission, with the fill tube on one side.

Take the funnel with you when you buy fuel and use it when you fill your container. You would also have to have a small container to put the fuel in that remains in the bottom of the funnel, because there probably isn't a place to dump it at the fuel station where you buy it.

You could also have an empty container at home, use the funnel to filter from one full container to the other, then you would have a filtered container full to add the additive to. Yes, a little more work, but worth it if it keeps you from having fuel issues.

I have a Mr. Funnel and use it to filter from my 5 gal. container to a 1 gal. container and then add the additive to it. I shake it well then add it to my fuel tank with an ordinary funnel. I just think it helps it mix some that way. Then, add the rest of the fuel from my 5 gal. container to my tank using the Mr. Funnel.

Lots of ways to do it. Just food for thought,
Ted

 

[sheepfarmer]

Ted, I think your third idea would be about as good as it gets, at least as far as dealing with winter and water and fuel gelling. In the summer when the water in either the fuel tank or storage tanks can allow algae to grow, and the additives are different, some other method might work better because while the Mr Funnel might filter out water, I am guessing it wouldn't filter out single algal cells or bacteria.

Another hint: the plastic bottles that hold some brands of kitty litter have really wide mouths and are perfect for holding the funnel when it finishes dripping, and are wide enough that you can dump the sump in them without spilling too. Now all I need to do is figure out what to do with the waste diesel. These bottles would also be good for collecting waste oil when changing fluids. Now all you need is a cat

 

[Grouse Feathers]

I have a BX2370 and this is my third winter with a diesel tractor. I add PSC (Power Service Conditioner) year round so I don't have to worry about getting caught with untreated fuel going into winter, and I add the PS to my plastic fuel cans before adding the fuel. I fill the tank every time after blowing snow to keep the tractor tank full, it takes one to two hours to blow the snow here depending on how deep and heavy the snow is, so about 2 gallons. The BX has two plastic inline fuel filters that have several threads of complaints on OTT, and I changed the first filter only in November at 200 hours.
The first winter I used a Mr Funnel for putting the fuel in the tractor, and I did a test to be sure Mr Funnel was taking water out with the PSC in the fuel.
The second and third winters I decided it was too much hassle to use Mr Funnel so I quit, and so far have not had a problem.
There are a lot of diesels out there that are not having fuel problems. I think you need to be reasonably careful, but not go overboard with extra work. I could really change my mind if I ever have trouble.

This is my experience, different conditions may require different solutions.