DPF operating hints: calling all owners of new tractors

[sheepfarmer]

After reading lots of posts where people were not sure what was involved in managing a new Tier IV tractor outfitted with the emissions reduction equipment, and remembering that I had a lot of trouble making sense out of the directions in the operator's manual, I started a thread (see sticky in Tractor Operating). But a short form of the information to get a brand new user started was still needed. Most of us are so excited when our new tractors are delivered we don't remember half of what the dealer or tech tells us.

So I wrote up what I thought a brand new L60 user would need to know to get started, since that is the model I have and am familiar with.

PDF file for L60's
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31876&stc=1&d=1507045969

And with the help of 8upbowhunter have added a similar help sheet for L33-4701 tractors which have the dpf filters too. (The L2501 does not have a dpf filter).

PDF file for L01's
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34899&d=1521419961


1. Where are these writeups not clear? Additions? Subtractions? Any other user tips?

2. Would L60 users with 2016 models please check their manuals to see if the page references are correct and if there have been significant changes in the directions since my 2013 manuals were written? (note added "in proof" see post 43, thank you jryser, they are off by a couple of pages, so depending on the manufacturing date of your tractor or the manual you buy, they won't exactly match).

3. We (us OTT users) could expand this info to the other models like the M series, and the B3350 if those of you that are successfully using them could post your user hints, directions or even send me by PM copies of the relevant pages from your manuals. Kubota has copyright restrictions on their manuals so those pages should not be posted verbatim, but single use copies can be made. I would be willing to assemble that info and post for editing. NIW has said that he would then ask Mr K if it could be added to the articles section. I know I am asking a lot, but it is an investment in the future of these tractors. If they can be used successfully they will keep the high resale value that Kubotas are known for

Thanks!

 

[D2Cat]

Sheepfarmer, I am amazed at your willingness, understanding and helpfulness of the Tier IV emissions situation with these tractors. You truly are a student of the system.

You are a blessing to this forum, and I'm sure to those you associate with every day!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Original post by Daren Todd:
I think it's very informative and well written. For someone who hasn't seen or operated a tier 4 tractor yet. After reading the article, I have a good understanding of what the buttons do, and how the system operates.

Great job!!!!!

Original post by skeets:
Hell Im dumber than a box of rocks, I understood it and I dont even have one of them

I think it's very informative and well written. For someone who hasn't seen or operated a tier 4 tractor yet. After reading the article, I have a good understanding of what the buttons do, and how the system operates.

Great job!!!!!

Hell Im dumber than a box of rocks, I understood it and I dont even have one of them

EDIT NOTE:
I had to do some fancy editing and these two replys ended up in the wrong place, but there Quotes are their original posts.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Thanks NIW! I appreciate your help with getting the pdf to post and the thread started.

 

[Wormwood]

Excellent idea!

If there was a point I'd like to make, it'd be publications & information. It's apparent to me that these emissions based regulations are being taken like bad medicine from the manufacturers. The mfg. are NOT spending the funds needed to round out a new product feature. Things such as egonomics, system integration, & marketing/publications. From the onset any information regarding these emission related devices are written, maybe verbatim, from an engineers desktop. There's little associated diagrams, exploded views, or more descriptive way of describing what the hell is going on, at least not in the same slick way things like Stall Guard, FEL Leveling, or implement capabilities are written.

The emissions feature were simply not an idea from the mfg. but it needs the same amount of face time as the other features & options get with the various departments.

Sadly, in the absence of information & better integration with the tractor, I'm more inclined to find ways to remove it than embrace it & move on. If a customer is expected to replace a DPF down the road, just like a muffler but at 5 times the cost, you need to provide more information & more control over its use. We all have a good understanding of a muffler & have options, additionally we have hours meters on the engine so we can monitor its use. However a DPF we're still relatively in the dark & have little information that is unique to the one installed on our tractor.

As an example, Ford, one of the most extreme cases of no information. To the extent they believe the DPF sould be seamless in the operation of the vehicle, gives no indication to the operator the mode of operation, overall wear, nothing. It should be no surprise that individuals are spending more than it cost to replace these emission devices to have them removed, bypassed, or defeated. I perceive this as the end customer does not approve or is will invest in something they have no information or control over.

Finally, I also believe that with a more complete information set the manufacturer will obviously be compromising their emissions technology and how they are integrated, thus making it easier to remove, but overall, I think more customers will decide to keep the emissions devices that wouldn't otherwise. There will always be customers for whatever reason want to defeat the emissions and depriving all of us the proper information only stands to delay their goal slightly, because they're going to remove it no matter what. I strongly feel that with more information to the customer the better the relationship with the manufacturer & more likely to be retained.

Wormwood

 

[sheepfarmer]

Wormwood: exactly!!!! The new tractors come with a bunch of associated features that make the engines really nice to live with, and the dpf system could be made more user friendly with better writing, and a few operational changes.

 

[skeets]

IM not real sure but I dont think the folks that write the manuals, speak our speak, if that makes any sense

 

[lugbolt]

Skeets you're right. Kubota being a Japanese company, a lot of their publications are translated from Japanese to English. It's my understanding that if a writing is translated from Japanese to English, and then back to Japanese, there is some lost translation.

I call it "japanenglish". Or sometimes just "Jinglish".

You guys that are dissing the DPF system, y'all got any better ideas? Remember what the engineers had to deal with....they have to deal with the US EPA standards set forth, cost concerns, a million other legalities.....and all of that considered, what would make the system work better for you?

Honestly, the way that the system it set up, it is the best compromise for "most" people. It IS seamless when you're bush hogging. Light comes on, light goes off, you never know anything happened. But not every tractor is a mower. Many use them for front loader work, moving bales, backhoe work, etc. And those who continually run at lower engine speeds are the ones that the regeneration cycle affects the most, in my opinion. One thing I can tell you for sure-it ain't going away and the feds are watching the forums so that they know who's doing what.

If you guys don't like the DPF systems, maybe ya outta go trade your DPF tractor in for an older non-DPF tractor? Seen a few guys doing just that in the last couple years. But the same exact thing happened with diesel pickup trucks. When the DPF trucks came out everyone was scared of them and then went out and bought the old 7.3's, old Duramax's, and Cummins pickups....and found out that they might have been better off going new....Know one guy that bought a new 6.4 when they came out, and drove it directly to a shop that put studs in, head gaskets, DPF and EGR delete, full exhaust and tuner. Makes 600hp and 1100+ lb-ft of torque. Truck had 51 miles on it when he dropped it off and 55 when he picked it up (dyno time). Feds found out about it, investigated and fined the shop so heavily that they had to close and sell every asset to help pay the fines.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

When all the gasoline emissions stuff started, everyone was in an up roar over it all, and yes the first systems were buggy and had issues, but as time went on all worked out.
Now you won't buy a gasoline vehicle without all the emissions equipment and you don't even know it has it.

 

[MadMax31]

The big gripe is, emissions have been on diesels for years now. They are proven to do one thing: Destroy a solid engine. If the truck world cant figure it out, and they sell lots more than tractor manufacturers do, what can a group like Kubota do? They cant reinvent the wheel, major diesel manufacturers have scrapped entire engines because it wont jive with emissions.

The most common DPF complaint is the B3350. Not too many Ls, but on other forums, the gripes do exist. I know the front mount mower that Kubota makes is also in the same boat as the B3350, maybe they share the engine? If Mahindra makes a Tier 4 compliant engine without a DPF, wouldnt the other colors try to follow the pattern?

I know a Massey 1734e owner who has had 6 regens in only 50 hrs. He runs it wide open hoping to bake the DPF right out of it.

Its really a kick in the consumers balls, most needs require ~30 hp. So alot of guys are running the 25 hp to circumvent the DPF, but are left without the PTO they really need. BX owners hopefully will never have to worry about it.

Ill be that guy. Im fine with it. Im looking for an L3940hstc, take the hit on interest, and let her idle for an hour while I do other things and the cab gets nice and toasty. Payments will work out the same, just no warranty and Im fine with that as well...

 

[skeets]

https://youtu.be/kIbEj1CIpuU?t=5

 

[sheepfarmer]

Max before you get an old style Kubota and let it idle for an hour, look up "diesel slobbers".

Can you give me some links to L tractors that have had regen problems? Wondering what went wrong.

And let me repeat my request especially to the L01 owners about hints for new owners. What do you do to successfully manage your tractor's regens? What is not clear in the owner's manual?

Thanks!

The big gripe is, emissions have been on diesels for years now. They are proven to do one thing: Destroy a solid engine. If the truck world cant figure it out, and they sell lots more than tractor manufacturers do, what can a group like Kubota do? They cant reinvent the wheel, major diesel manufacturers have scrapped entire engines because it wont jive with emissions.

The most common DPF complaint is the B3350. Not too many Ls, but on other forums, the gripes do exist. I know the front mount mower that Kubota makes is also in the same boat as the B3350, maybe they share the engine? If Mahindra makes a Tier 4 compliant engine without a DPF, wouldnt the other colors try to follow the pattern?

I know a Massey 1734e owner who has had 6 regens in only 50 hrs. He runs it wide open hoping to bake the DPF right out of it.

Its really a kick in the consumers balls, most needs require ~30 hp. So alot of guys are running the 25 hp to circumvent the DPF, but are left without the PTO they really need. BX owners hopefully will never have to worry about it.

Ill be that guy. Im fine with it. Im looking for an L3940hstc, take the hit on interest, and let her idle for an hour while I do other things and the cab gets nice and toasty. Payments will work out the same, just no warranty and Im fine with that as well...

 

[lugbolt]

I work closely with some people that know the Kubota stuff really REALLY well. They deal with tens of thousands of tractors, L's, B's, M's, big M's, BX's. basically all of them.

To my knowledge, there have been TWO L series DPF failures, and one that I know of may have been done out of spite because the tractor was in the repossession process.


Might be more but that's all I've heard of, nationwide.

I think sometimes people want to make mountains out of molehills.

 

[lugbolt]

Oh yes and as far as Tier IV and Mahindra not using a DPF, they will have to eventually.

When the tier schedule was introduced, the government knew that manufacturers needed time to figure out how to meet the strict laws set forth. So they gave them until 2008, and gave them 5 steps, or tiers, to get it all perfected. BUT, there were credits that could be "bought" to basically allow the deadlines to be extended, and Kubota chose to stop extending the inevitable; they had already been working on the systems since the mid 2000's, I want to say around '04 or '05 was about the time they (and I) knew something was going to happen in the future. I was working at the dealer at the time and went to one of the technical schools, where the "new" M108X was introduced with electronic fuel injection. It was then that we were told that this is the future and you may as well get used to it, because there's more coming, and soon.

Mahindra had bought more credits to extend the time frame a little longer. But it won't last forever. This still makes them "tier IV compatible" because they (actually the people who bought tractors) paid the government enough money to give them time to perfect their system-which has taken longer than anyone else, which makes them compatible with the written law. JD and Kubota (and LS) have perfected the systems so that MOST people can figure it out.

There are a few things I'd like to see done differently, like placing a certain switch in a M series from a "push for auto DPF" to "push for DPF inhibit"-like the L01 series are. And I would like to see a DVD done up and given to every DPF tractor's customer that explains the functions and explains (in plain english) how to use them. It would eliminate a lot of questions for sure-and maybe scale back the confusion.

Some still over think it and then there's some that just refuse accept the changes. Good friend of mine in Nebraska, has about 8300 acres of corn fields, is one of those. But he'll put $50,000 worth of repairs into an older tractor before he goes to a new DPF equipped tractor. But there will come a time when the older stuff is not supported, and then what do you do? Actually that day is already here.....if you walk into your dealer and order a complete engine, as long as it's over 30hp, you MUST document it's destruction and disposal per the US Government guidelines. If you cant document it, Kubota ain't gonna send you a new engine. All manufacturers have to meet the same guidelines, so you can see, the government don't want any old stuff out there! Trucks are getting the same way. They do this so you can't put a tier 1 engine on a tractor that was originally a tier 2, so on and so forth. Sometimes a tier 3 engine is not produced or the manufacturer ran out of the stock piles of them, or whatever, so whoever's putting the engine in has to put in an interim tier 4, which satisfies the government's regulation. But that engine might be a little different...say it might be turbocharged where the original was not....so now the owner gets to buy a new exhaust system, intake system, charge air cooler, etc.

All this stuff...people wanna blame Obama, but it was the Clintons who came up with it originally back in the early 2000's. Not that it matters because the regs are in place and we have to deal with it the best we can. And trust me, I seriously doubt that Kubota or any other manufacturer wants this stuff either, but they have no choice given the current technology.

 

[rjcorazza]

Max before you get an old style Kubota and let it idle for an hour, look up "diesel slobbers".

Can you give me some links to L tractors that have had regen problems? Wondering what went wrong.

And let me repeat my request especially to the L01 owners about hints for new owners. What do you do to successfully manage your tractor's regens? What is not clear in the owner's manual?

Thanks!

Excellent DPF write-up. I spoke to a Kubota mechanic the other day who was at my place for an unrelated issue with a rear blade. I mentioned the 3350 DPF issues and he just rolled (then crossed) his eyes. He said at least the L60 tractors have been DPF problem free.
I read up to the best of my ability on the L60 DPF operation when I got mine, and in order (somewhat) my priorities are:
Do not idle lower than 1200-1500 rpm.
If I'm off the tractor for 5 minutes or so I shut it off.
I keep an eye on the regen % and try to time heavy work (mowing for me) right
before a regen is due.
I have no plans to use the "DPF inhibit" switch to avoid the hassles of dealing with the other DPF system stages.

My machine has about 120h on it with 2 DPF cycles so far (?). The last one had me concerned because it started before I thought it was due, and the exhaust was lightly popping. Thought for sure something else was going on, but was relieved to see the regen light on!
I really like the Auto Throttle Advance tying the HST pedal to the throttle. I generally keep the manual throttle lever at about 1500rpm and let the pedal take it higher when I get moving.
Anyway, thanks again for posting the write up!

 

[scdeerslayer]

There are a few things I'd like to see done differently, like placing a certain switch in a M series from a "push for auto DPF" to "push for DPF inhibit"-like the L01 series are.

I thought they already changed that. My MX has the DPF inhibit instead of the auto regen button, and I thought the first ones had the auto regen button.

I'd like to see an option to start a regen once the dpf gets to a certain percentage, instead of having to wait for it. Then you can plan to do something like mowing and start it instead of having to wait until it wants to start when you're doing something where you don't need/want the higher rpms. I don't have the screen that tells me the percentage but I'd like a light in the dash that lets me know a regen will happen soon.

 

[rjcorazza]

...
I'd like to see an option to start a regen once the dpf gets to a certain percentage, instead of having to wait for it. Then you can plan to do something like mowing and start it instead of having to wait until it wants to start when you're doing something where you don't need/want the higher rpms. I don't have the screen that tells me the percentage but I'd like a light in the dash that lets me know a regen will happen soon.

I agree. The ability to manually regen would be great.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Thanks for the hints post rjcorazza, and it is X3 on the ability to trigger a regen when convenient. I have been telling every Kubota person I meet that for the last 2 years, and the last one told me that they had put that feature into the big M tractors this year. It would be easy to do I would think, just some changes in the software.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Lugbolt, I like your idea about a dvd, I hadn't thought of that. One of the things I learned when I was teaching is that some students are visual learners and material can be written or drawn and they will get it, and others are auditory learners and they need to hear something spoken to get it. A dvd would really help that kind of person. Both kinds of students benefited from a situation where they did something with their hands to help stuff sink in. People wonder why vet/med students can't learn all their anatomy off a computer, but they really can't.

 

[Greenhead]

What the what? Something new?

http://www.kubotaengine.com/products/parts/dpf-cleaning/clean-dpf-exchange-kit-2