frozen backhoe pins

[meinnovations]

I appreciate all the great ideas here. I ground off the ends of the retention pins to remove them and applied 10T porta power to push them out from the inside with very light pressure on the outriggers and boom in an attempt to eliminate all shear on the pins. Nothing. With 10T still applied, I tried rocking the outriggers and boom in all permutations. Still no movement. I haven't welded in a half century and have

no equipment. Any ideas? Air hammer? really hot torch? Both? Other?

 

[bird dogger]

From your last pics, it looks like the top brackets on the backhoe itself have been bent for some reason?
that would explain why the pins seem to be locked in place. Both sides of the top brackets should be resting equally against the subframe mount location? At least on my BH77 they are.

Are both left and right sides on your mount like the one pictured?

Edit: Pics can be deceiving but it looks like the outer "Flange" is bent outward a little. Maybe a quick measure of the distance between the inner/outer flanges on both left and right side mounts would tell if one is bent or not. If they were equal distance apart....then maybe that's just how they were made. But the pic makes it look a little odd.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You have wedged the pin in there.
When you applied the force on the inside you bent the outside flange out and stuck the pin!
Pull that tire and hit it with a Really big hammer and get it back in alignment.
And the pins probably will not come out the wrong direction.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

From your last pics, it looks like the top brackets on the backhoe itself have been bent for some reason?
that would explain why the pins seem to be locked in place. Both sides of the top brackets should be resting equally against the subframe mount location? At least on my BH77 they are.

Are both left and right sides on your mount like the one pictured?

Look at the first pic, they were straight before way too much wrong applied force was used.

 

[whitetiger]

A port-a-power was about the worst thing to use in this situation, you probably see that now.
I have wasted so much time trying to soak and beat those pins out. There is too much rebound as the brackets and tractor are not rigid enough for pounding.

Solution: Exothermal lance and 10 minutes. You blow a hole through the center of the pin, and it will easily drive out.
Disclaimer: You're gonna need new pins!!

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

You have wedged the pin in there.
When you applied the force on the inside you bent the outside flange out and stuck the pin!

agreed... needed a twist of the pin not a push as the rusted pin which was laminated firm to the flange bent the flange when straight force applied.

this fix got interesting quickly as now a pin removal and a flange straightening is going to have to occur.

I still would go the twisting route versus a horizontal push/hammer approach as that is not how those flanges were designed to take stresses.

overall a real sucky situation for sure.

 

[bird dogger]

agreed... needed a twist of the pin not a push as the rusted pin which was laminated firm to the flange bent the flange when straight force applied.

this fix got interesting quickly as now a pin removal and a flange straightening is going to have to occur.

I still would go the twisting route versus a horizontal push/hammer approach as that is not how those flanges were designed to take stresses.

overall a real sucky situation for sure.

I don't know your tractor or backhoe, so I'm only going by your pictures posted above. At this point, might an option be to take a thin cut off wheel and cut through the pin in the widest gap area. It would split the resistance in two making it easier to twist free the one section. It would shorten the remaining section enough to where it would be easier to drill through that portion of the pin in increasing diameters of drill bits.

You'd then have options of getting smaller sawzall blades through the drilled out holes to split the pin section into halves for removal?

(You might even cut through both sides of the pin inside the mounts.....and could then remove the backhoe.....making it even easier to free up/remove the short frozen in place sections of both pins.)

If done carefully, any small cuts or marks in the flange bushings could be cleaned up afterwards.... if even necessary.

 

[jaxs]

It occurs to me that diyers AND advice givers should take the Hippocratic Oath before picking tools up or handing out advice. Specifically the part that says "First I'll DO No Harm".

 

[GreensvilleJay]

sigh, this has gone from bad to worse and I feel the OP's frustration and pain.
In the last pix I can see a gap in the pieces but no hint of dripping 'oil' on the orange parts.
'rust welds' are a bear to deal with ad pretty sure you'll have to rotate the pins to break the rust up
The big problem is getting all the parts to not have any strain on them,which is the 1st part of the solution.I wouldn't rely on the BH hydraulics for this, rather wooden blocks and 20T jacks under the 'frame' to get it just right.
As other have said the 'arms' need to be straightened out as well, before tackling the pins.

To rotate the pins if you have a BIG set of vicegrips,locked on real good, they should be able to rotate the pin ,just a bit,back and forth providing some 'oil' has weeped it's way here there everywhere.
If you heat the pin hot, then add oil at the other end, the heat will draw the oil in. You'll need real heat though, a propane torch wont be enough. Lots of oil, lots of heat, lots of patience.

We're all rooting for !

 

[Chanceywd]

On my BH77, once the backhoe is in the saddle/mount with the lower backhoe pins....I need to slightly raise my outriggers so that the backhoe is completely resting on those lower pins. Then using the boom & dipper to pivot the rest of the backhoe frame firmly up against the upper mounts....my pins will slip right in place. The same goes for removing my backhoe: without outriggers down, use the boom and dipper to pivot the hoe up against the upper mounts and the pins will be loose enough to slide out. Only then do I use the outriggers & boom to lift/pivot the hoe from its subframe to remove from tractor.

On my B2650, any use of the outriggers to try to add or remove the top pins will put enough pressure on them making removal impossible.

Thinking now your right about the outriggers. I put my BH77 on a dolly and use only the boom and bucket curl to get it loose at the pins and curl to then lower the BH to raise it out of the lower hooks.
Avoiding the outriggers completely because I am in the garage.

Bill

 

[JonM]

WD40 is the wrong stuff. Kroll, PB Blaster or parafin with diesel. Soak, tap. Patience.
When mine are stuck, I try to twist and at the same time work the bucket up and down to find the 'sweet spot'.

ill second on the wd40. its probably the worst product ever invented. its got no place on anything except old bicycle chains from 1902 and old zebco fushing reels from walmart. thats about it

 

[Chanceywd]

ill second on the wd40. its probably the worst product ever invented. its got no place on anything except old bicycle chains from 1902 and old zebco fushing reels from walmart. thats about it

Another non user here.
Won't find a can of it in my garage. I am convinced it attracts rust.

Bill

 

[GreensvilleJay]

well it IS a Water Displacement chemical, so it'll leave the steel 'bare', and so 'attracts rust', well allows rust to form....
WD-40 is NOT a 'lubricant' or 'oil' or 'rust protector' or 'penetrating oil' or .....

 

[fried1765]

well it IS a Water Displacement chemical, so it'll leave the steel 'bare', and so 'attracts rust', well allows rust to form....
WD-40 is NOT a 'lubricant' or 'oil' or 'rust protector' or 'penetrating oil' or .....

I submit, that paint thinner might be just as good.

 

[meinnovations]

Look at the first pic, they were straight before way too much wrong applied force was used.

You're right. I was focused on the pins moving and didn't note the flange deflection as I jacked. The pins are so frozen on the outboard flanges that they bent them in spite of the gusset plates. I was just in utter disbelief that the pressure of half a tank wouldn't push through the corrosion. Hopefully I can use a pull-back ram to squeeze them back together. What baffles me is the pins would have to move through either the inboard or outboard flanges equal to the deflection (~.25") of spreading them apart. Neither moved - certainly not .25". The right pin was - and still is - flush with the outer flange and the retention pin hole is still lined up with the retention loop/hole that keeps the pin from working itself out, whatever that's called. There was no play. Same with the left pin except that it was never flush with the outer flange. A previous owner bent its retention pin to drop (hammer?) it into its retention loop/hole. I had to punch it out.

I put the tractor on stands to remove the wheels and punch the pins from the outside, but I'm guessing that I'm going to have to drill them out. I might try to tap them and put in a big bolt to turn it, but pretty confident these pins are a sunk cost at this point. Any other ideas?

 

[Russell King]

Could you use something in the pin holes to try and pull the pin towards the center of the tractor? That could pull the ears back or pop the pins loose if that is the direction they are supposed to be coming out (I have no idea).

I personally like the idea of cutting the pins into three pieces as mentioned above and getting the backhoe out of the way of the tractor (and the tractor out of the way of the backhoe.

 

[meinnovations]

yes 50/50 of ACE + ATF, best choice' decades ago guy did a good controlled study on off the shelf and homemade 'oils' and ACE+ATF was the winner in both application and cost.

I usually gently heat the 'where it has to go end' to help getting the oil to migrate that way. heat end, apply oil, wait a bit repeat several times.

Also, if possible, try( gently ) to rotate the pins,a little, back and forth,more oil, more back and forth. A possible problem is the pins may have become 'egg shaped' ove rthe years of bang,bang,bang ?

WD-40 was a red herring. I applied Liquid Wrench liberally 4 days in a row, tapped, jiggled the outriggers and bucket. I assume ATF is automatic transmission fluid. What is ACE? Do you have a link to that study?

 

[Russell King]

ACE = acetone (highly flammable)

ATF is transmission fluid

I have had very good luck with PB Blaster.

 

[meinnovations]

thats a lot of rust.
i would cut the retaining sliders off the pins. Those sliders will be of little help getting the pins out and with so much rust you be likely replacing the 2 pins anyways once you get them removed.
then with the retaining sliders off you will have lots of room to get a pipe wrench on the end of the pin. With some penetrating oil and a good pipe wrench I bet you can get those pins broken free and spinning.
Once free the major battle should be over. Grease and dipper stick to take pressure off you should be able to remove.

good luck. shouldn't be a difficult task to overcome.

Pipe wrench was a good idea. Multiple Liquid Wrench applications over days and wouldn't budge with a sledgehammer on the wrench.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yes, BIG pipewench on tight, 4' helper and see IF the pin will slightly rotate. IF it does, go other way,then keep reversing direction,getting more and more 'arc'. Keep adding more oil too(ATF or 'thin' oil ) whatever you have. You're trying to work the oil into every nook and cranny.