Emissions delete kits??

The Evil Twin

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Every diesel driven by an employee at my local Ford dealer is unrestricted. Over 50% of the trucks around here are unrestricted. Probably as many of the tractors and track loaders are too.
Any idea what would happen to a dealership if they went George Orwell and reported it to the EPA? They would close within a year because no one would buy from them again.
 
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McMXi

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I have seen several profiles here whose 1st message was to inquire about DPF emulators.
And your point is? Are you implying that they're undercover EPA agents looking to entrap tractor owners?

Asking about emissions modifications in a first post seems more than reasonable to me. Many buy a DPF/EGR/DEF tractor without knowing much about the system. Then they start using it and wonder if there's a way to not to have to deal with certain aspects of owning and using their new tractor. They might not have any problems or concerns other than the emissions, so they ask if there's an alternative. Nothing wrong with asking or talking about this stuff ... but perhaps that will change too.
 
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Selkirk_D

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Out of interest, can you provide any documentation that states that a private individual is not permitted to modify the emissions of a vehicle intended for off-road use? Also, is a police officer or EPA agent (if there is such a thing) allowed to search a vehicle that's on your property without a search warrant, unless there are exigent circumstances?

I think we all know that Kubota dealerships aren't going to modify the emissions of any tractor for obvious reasons, but what makes anyone think that they're obligated to notify someone if a tractor shows up that has been modified. If an owner wanted to trade in a tractor on a new purchase that has had the emissions modified, it would be refused by the dealership, but they're under no legal obligation to say anything to anyone. I know this because I've spoken to my local Kubota dealership about this very thing.

All of this fear-mongering is laughable. Do a search for diesel emission delete kits for trucks and you'll find many companies both in the US and over that border that are currently selling kits. These are kits for trucks that are intended to be used on the road. Ooohhh .... perhaps they're all part of an EPA sting operation. :rolleyes:
Overview
1739666246120.png

1739666246137.png

+2


Tractors are subject to emissions regulations from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). These regulations include standards for greenhouse gas emissions, fuel economy, and technologies that reduce emissions.

Greenhouse gas emissions

  • The EPA announced a final rule in March 2024 that sets stronger standards for heavy-duty vehicles, including tractors, starting in model year 2027.
  • The new standards are technology-neutral, allowing manufacturers to choose the best emissions control technologies for their vehicles.
  • The standards build on the EPA's Heavy-Duty Phase 2 program from 2016.

Fuel economy

  • Tractors that pull box-type trailers must be equipped with fuel-efficient tires and aerodynamic trailer devices.
  • The tractors and trailers must either be U.S. Environmental Protection Agency SmartWay certified or retrofitted with SmartWay verified technologies.

Other regulations

  • The EPA has also issued regulations for nonroad diesel engines and fuel.
  • The EPA recommends that ammonia slip should be below 10 ppm average over the applicable test cycles.

Some states, like California, have additional regulations for heavy-duty vehicles.

Guess all those tuner shops getting huge fines from EPA is fear mongering too. Did you happen to ask yourself why manufacturers would voluntarily put all that smog crap on their tractors if they weren’t forced to by the EPA?
 

McMXi

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Overview
View attachment 148556
View attachment 148557
+2


Tractors are subject to emissions regulations from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). These regulations include standards for greenhouse gas emissions, fuel economy, and technologies that reduce emissions.

Greenhouse gas emissions

  • The EPA announced a final rule in March 2024 that sets stronger standards for heavy-duty vehicles, including tractors, starting in model year 2027.
  • The new standards are technology-neutral, allowing manufacturers to choose the best emissions control technologies for their vehicles.
  • The standards build on the EPA's Heavy-Duty Phase 2 program from 2016.

Fuel economy

  • Tractors that pull box-type trailers must be equipped with fuel-efficient tires and aerodynamic trailer devices.
  • The tractors and trailers must either be U.S. Environmental Protection Agency SmartWay certified or retrofitted with SmartWay verified technologies.

Other regulations

  • The EPA has also issued regulations for nonroad diesel engines and fuel.
  • The EPA recommends that ammonia slip should be below 10 ppm average over the applicable test cycles.

Some states, like California, have additional regulations for heavy-duty vehicles.

Guess all those tuner shops getting huge fines from EPA is fear mongering too. Did you happen to ask yourself why manufacturers would voluntarily put all that smog crap on their tractors if they weren’t forced to by the EPA?
Your post simply states what the EPA requires of manufacturers of tractors and says nothing about what an owner can or can't do on their own property. As for "all those tuner shops getting huge fines", how many and how much? Google DPF/EGR/DEF delete and see how many places are offering such services.

The typical response is to post one or two links to articles about the EPA cracking down on this stuff and try to make everyone think that the EPA is going to kick in the door of Kenny Kubota or Donny Dodge, and force them to pay to huge fines, confiscate their vehicles and drag them through the streets where mobs will throw eggs and tomatoes at them.

Let me ask you this, is it legal for a tractor owner to work on the emissions system of their tractor or truck for the purpose of repair? If a DPF clogs up, is it legal for a truck or tractor owner to remove it or can that work only be performed by a dealership?
 
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Selkirk_D

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Your post simply states what the EPA requires of manufacturers of tractors and says nothing about what an owner can or can't do on their own property. As for "all those tuner shops getting huge fines", how many and how much? Google DPF/EGR/DEF delete and see how many places are offering such services.

The typical response is to post one or two links to articles about the EPA cracking down on this stuff and try to make everyone think that the EPA is going to kick in the door of Kenny Kubota or Donny Dodge, and force them to pay to huge fines, confiscate their vehicles and drag them through the streets where mobs will throw eggs and tomatoes at them.

Let me ask you this, is it legal for a tractor owner to work on the emissions system of their tractor or truck for the purpose of repair? If a DPF clogs up, is it legal for a truck or tractor owner to remove it or can that work only be performed by a dealership?

delete away, not my problem because my tractor is pre def
 

WFM

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Here in southern Maine a few months back a diesel garage or custom diesel shop in Windham the shop specializes in diesel trucks only. Not semi but ton trucks and light trucks. I was in windham once at a stop light. The dodge truck ahead of me had a 6" stack pipe that came up thru the truck bed behind the cab almost in the center and was cut 45* at the top. I realized the back of the cab was black.
Then the light turned green, his foot was in it and he was gone. The entire intersection completely black with smoke.
You couldn't see anything. I just sit there laughing waiting for the smoke to clear thinking if I was 20 yrs old. I'd love that truck.
But back to the thread. The diesel shop there the owner arrested, $100.k fine, five yrs in jail for altering the emissions on trucks. Like the one I was behind I'm sure.
After wanting a kubota for several yrs and seeing in 2013 that the 2014 models would have diesel emissions added. That pushed me to buy in 2013.
 
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Botamon

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is it legal for a tractor owner to work on the emissions system of their tractor or truck for the purpose of repair? If a DPF clogs up, is it legal for a truck or tractor owner to remove it or can that work only be performed by a dealership?
 
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McMXi

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If a tractor manufactured after the adoption of Tier 4 Final was sold by a dealer without any DPF or EGR because the engine produces 25hp or less, does it violate Tier 4 Final standards if an owner installs a turbo such that the engine now produces more than 25hp and yet has none of the emissions parts required for +25hp tractors?

I'm genuinely interested in this since some are interested in this upgrade.
 
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McMXi

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jyoutz

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I had a pre-emissions tractor for 21 years. Every time I operated it for more than 30 minutes I ended up with a bad sinus headache. It got so bad that I thought my tractor operating days were over. Then I tried a tier 4 tractor owned by a neighbor. I had no sinus headaches even after operating the machine for a few hours. I was needing a larger machine any, so I upgraded to my tier 4 MX. I can operate it for hours without sinus problems and I would never change anything.
 
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McMXi

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Perhaps the EPA should start a "buy back" program to get all the pre DPF/DEF trucks off the road. My '02 F-250 is a candidate. I'd accept $20k and roll the money into a new F-550. 😂

It is such a corrupt world that we live in though. Given that the contribution to US yearly emissions from agriculture is less than 2%, and you can imagine how small the contribution is from compact and smaller tractors that we own, how much difference is any of this making other than passing on cost to the end user?
 
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lugbolt

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EPA don't care how the emissions standards are met. The manufacturer has to come up with a way to satisfy those standards, and the epa then certifies that method. DPF in itself is not mandated, neither is SCR (def). That's just the easiest way of meeting the standards that the epa set forth.

I went through this before and I'll do it again. As a former dealer tech, I can 100% confirm that the dealer can in fact notify authorities if emissions-tampered tractors show up at the dealer. I can also confirm that the RSM advised every single one of us to turn away "deleted" equipment, as a liability issue. IF we (shop) worked on it and, say, the owner gets busted with tampered emissions, they can track that back to the dealer and then the dealer gets to prove whether or not they did anything that might help the owner's equipment defeat the devices that would affect the emissions system. My best friend worked at a company that did support for the oil and gas industry. Basically he was a run-around guy, taking repair parts and such from site to site from a shop. Tools, etc. They had a fleet of I think 84 trucks, all Fords and all 6.4's at the time. Every single one of them was 'deleted' within 100 miles of delivery to customer. There was a shop just up the road from where I live that did fairly well deleting these fleet vehicles, he loved it. Guaranteed business. My friend came back from a drill site and had to pick up some kind of pump repair parts and some tools, and on the way back to the site got stopped for having a tail light out. Local officer noticed a large (4") tail pipe and noisier than stock exhaust. Wrote him up for the tail light (defective equipment) and also for the exhaust system as defective equipment with possible tampering with federal emissions-which was a mandatory court appearance. Judge set a trial date and they brought the truck in for inspection, brought the vehicle owner in (the company), and the company played dumb. But the paper trail was there, the shop that did the work had the payment information and the repair order. So it was a slam dunk in favor of the feds. Each truck inspected by an inspector and found to be in violation, then fined pretty heavily. Per vehicle mind you. Shop that did the work and sold the parts was also fine, more heavily. Shop sourced the parts to do all this from another company out west, and the feds went after that place and fined them heavily. All because of a routine traffic stop. We are talking fines in the millions of dollars.

you guys can gamble if you want to. I'm out of that loop.

In 2012 I had the pleasure of going through an IRS raid on the business I worked at. They indeed have a dedicated police. There was 11 employees at the store at 0900, 30 min after they opened up. Right at 0900 they (irs police) shows up and held everyone up with automatic weapons. Us grease monkeys got to spend about 6 1/2 hours being grilled by these folks, they were fishing for an answer and for the first 2 hours we didn't even know who they were, they did not identify themselves, nothing on their clothing to identify them, nothing. I try to ask who they are, they say shut up and answer questions. My coworker said that they can't do what they are doing and he wanted to call an attorney, but the agent said you can't call anyone because the phones are disabled (and they were indeed disabled, no dial tone nothing on the landlines, and our cellphones were confiscated immediately at the very beginning of the raid, along with our CCW's, pocket knives, ink pens, keys, wallets, everything). The agents had each computer in the business disconnected from the LAN, and they had some kind of devices that they plugged into the cat5 cables and the phone lines that went to each PC at each workstation. Yes, the IRS does have a police, and I go to deal with them. Worse yet, the boss got to deal with them for the next 6 1/2 years, where they were found guilty on ONE charge, of which they were 100% set up for from the very beginning, which was in 2010. 2 years before the raid. Sneaky? You bet. I'm simply saying, they exist, they do things that you would not think they could do legally. But they are above the law so what do you expect?

My experience with the feds was such that I have permanently lost trust in all federl agencies, epa, atf, irs all of them. I wish it wasn't that way but the way they handled the whold irs raid, I don't really have a choice. I wish I could also make the occasional nighmares go away.
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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Overview
View attachment 148556
View attachment 148557
+2


Tractors are subject to emissions regulations from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). These regulations include standards for greenhouse gas emissions, fuel economy, and technologies that reduce emissions.

Greenhouse gas emissions

  • The EPA announced a final rule in March 2024 that sets stronger standards for heavy-duty vehicles, including tractors, starting in model year 2027.
  • The new standards are technology-neutral, allowing manufacturers to choose the best emissions control technologies for their vehicles.
  • The standards build on the EPA's Heavy-Duty Phase 2 program from 2016.

Fuel economy

  • Tractors that pull box-type trailers must be equipped with fuel-efficient tires and aerodynamic trailer devices.
  • The tractors and trailers must either be U.S. Environmental Protection Agency SmartWay certified or retrofitted with SmartWay verified technologies.

Other regulations

  • The EPA has also issued regulations for nonroad diesel engines and fuel.
  • The EPA recommends that ammonia slip should be below 10 ppm average over the applicable test cycles.

Some states, like California, have additional regulations for heavy-duty vehicles.

Guess all those tuner shops getting huge fines from EPA is fear mongering too. Did you happen to ask yourself why manufacturers would voluntarily put all that smog crap on their tractors if they weren’t forced to by the EPA?
In this Article Tractor is a Semi / Tractor Trailer not an AG tractor.
 
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DaveFromMi

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And your point is? Are you implying that they're undercover EPA agents looking to entrap tractor owners?

Asking about emissions modifications in a first post seems more than reasonable to me. Many buy a DPF/EGR/DEF tractor without knowing much about the system. Then they start using it and wonder if there's a way to not to have to deal with certain aspects of owning and using their new tractor. They might not have any problems or concerns other than the emissions, so they ask if there's an alternative. Nothing wrong with asking or talking about this stuff ... but perhaps that will change too.
I am saying there is a strong possibility that there are undercover FED agents trying to entrap people here. However, I haven't seen any such profiles this year. They may be on a short leash now.
 
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ruger1980

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If a tractor manufactured after the adoption of Tier 4 Final was sold by a dealer without any DPF or EGR because the engine produces 25hp or less, does it violate Tier 4 Final standards if an owner installs a turbo such that the engine now produces more than 25hp and yet has none of the emissions parts required for +25hp tractors?

I'm genuinely interested in this since some are interested in this upgrade.
Yes very illegal.

Any modification to an EPA certified engine that affects emissions can be considered illegal. Doesnt matter if on road or off road or whatever.
 

lugbolt

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Yes very illegal.

Any modification to an EPA certified engine that affects emissions can be considered illegal. Doesnt matter if on road or off road or whatever.
yeah they were going after drag racers for a little bit. The guys who used regular road cars, modified them, and race them. It was still a motor vehicle, and still subject to the applicable motor vehicle emissions laws. I don't know the status of all that, I haven't kept up with it enough in the last year and a half or so.

believe me, they are smarter than we are. Also believe me when I say that they'll find ANY way possible to hit you with another fine if they can legally (or illegally) do so. And remember, they are above the law. Just like the IRS and ATF. ATF killed a man not too far from here; they had authority to do so. IRS police had authority to use deadly force if needed as well during their execution of search warrant when I was on that job. For a minute, I figured I was done for--because they refused to identify themselves. We didn't know if they were FBI ATF IRS EPA USDA USFS USACE, drug lords, executioners, or what. The way the laws are written, they are required to identify themselves but the law didn't clearly specify everything, and they took advantage. It was hours until we knew. The longest hours of my life, when noone was talking directly to me I was reliving a lot of the positive experiences in my past, thinking about my folks, ex's, brother & half sister, girlfriends, best friends, etc--because i didn't know if I was ever gonna see them again or not. And we were not the only ones who had to go through this. Gibson Guitar went through it, mountain valley spring water, a LOT of other places--and it was all part of the targeting of conservative groups, proven by the attorneys who researched the whole ordeal. But there wasn't much they could do because it was all, kinda legal.
 

GreensvilleJay

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FWIW...
years ago(20 ?), my brother, who test drives and writes about 'cars', found an article that All the cars of ALL the races that NASCAR held that year did LESS pollution than hauling ONE NFL team to ONE game....
 
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retired farmer

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Well, it seems of late the EPA is being somewhat neutered along with lots of other Feds. It's gong to be interesting to see how it all shakes out, at least for the next 3 or 4 yrs.
rr
 
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jyoutz

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Well, it seems of late the EPA is being somewhat neutered along with lots of other Feds. It's gong to be interesting to see how it all shakes out, at least for the next 3 or 4 yrs.
rr
Congress will have the final say, not the African.