Emissions delete kits??

[mike paulson]

What's the deal for obtaining emissions delete kits. Yes I'm sure it would void factory warranty but what about an out of warranty unit.
I've heard there are kits that remove all the Regen dpf filter nonsense. Just wondering about legality, resale etc

 

[GreensvilleJay]

well,depending where you live ,can be illegal to alter any of the 'emission' stuff.
so ,say you do it, then need to take tractor in for servicing(tire change ?, seat switch ?? ),dealer may be required to report you ???
dealer trade-in could be an issue ??
resale, better keep ALL the parts !!

 

[McMXi]

What's the deal for obtaining emissions delete kits. Yes I'm sure it would void factory warranty but what about an out of warranty unit.
I've heard there are kits that remove all the Regen dpf filter nonsense. Just wondering about legality, resale etc

I'm not an expert when it comes to this sort of thing, but ...

"Emission delete kits" typically consist of a new program uploaded to the ECU of your tractor as a starting point. Some models are programmer friendly and you don't need to remove the ECU and send it out. Others require ECU removal and shipping to a facility for bench flashing.

I never buy a tractor with the idea to sell it or trade it and have no thought about value 5, 10 or 20 years from now. I bought my tractors to use and to accomplish various tasks, and want them to last as long a as possible.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I am pretty sure that it is illegal.

We (Michigan) just had some big "diesel delete" company get fined Bigly.......

Considering that ya'll are limited to 10 round mags, I would bet that .Gov/NY is already "googling" your address.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2024/02/...leting-emissions-controls-on-semi-trucks.html

I'm not sure if they went after the customers, but I would not be surprised.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Hay, if you stay at one in Ontario, they'll stable and feed your horse !!!

 

[McMXi]

I am pretty sure that it is illegal.

We (Michigan) just had some big "diesel delete" company get fined Bigly.......

Considering that ya'll are limited to 10 round mags, I would bet that .Gov/NY is already "googling" your address.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2024/02/...leting-emissions-controls-on-semi-trucks.html

I'm not sure if they went after the customers, but I would not be surprised.

I think the EPA is too busy banning red food coloring that was known to cause cancer 30 years ago.

You could make the argument that adding a turbo to a 25hp tractor made after Final Tier 4 Standards were mandated is a violation of EPA regulations, but no one seems to be worried about that.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

FBI, ATF, DHS .... sure .... but the EPA?

IMHO sir, they are just another rogue '3 letter' agency.

https://www.epa.gov/archive/epapage...eleases/e2c6be490cd03cba85256a1b00770475.html


Excerpt:

The case was investigated by EPA’s Criminal Investigation Division and the Internal Revenue Service with the assistance of EPA’s National Enforcement Investigations Center.


Just Sayin.....

 

[McMXi]

IMHO sir, they are just another rogue '3 letter' agency.

https://www.epa.gov/archive/epapage...eleases/e2c6be490cd03cba85256a1b00770475.html


Excerpt:

The case was investigated by EPA’s Criminal Investigation Division and the Internal Revenue Service with the assistance of EPA’s National Enforcement Investigations Center.


Just Sayin.....

Again, not an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Again, not an apples to apples comparison.

Agreed.....kinda

All I'm saying is that they have the power to, and have, arrested "individuals" for "breaking the law".

My overall, point was that .gov is "watching".....

https://www.thedrive.com/news/diese...ruck-after-state-orders-deleted-emissions-fix

Kinda reminds me of "Who will watch, the Watchers?"

 

[The Evil Twin]

Agreed.....kinda

All I'm saying is that they have the power to, and have, arrested "individuals" for "breaking the law".

My overall, point was that .gov is "watching".....

https://www.thedrive.com/news/diese...ruck-after-state-orders-deleted-emissions-fix

Kinda reminds me of "Who will watch, the Watchers?"

That dude was dumb enough to list the truck as deleted. He deserved it for his stupidity.

 

[The Evil Twin]

What's the deal for obtaining emissions delete kits. Yes I'm sure it would void factory warranty but what about an out of warranty unit.
I've heard there are kits that remove all the Regen dpf filter nonsense. Just wondering about legality, resale etc

Look to the north and across the border. Seek and ye shall find.
P.S. - it will not void your entire warranty. There is the possibility that specific parts may not be covered if the dealer chooses to disclose it to K.

 

[McMXi]

Agreed.....kinda

All I'm saying is that they have the power to, and have, arrested "individuals" for "breaking the law".

My overall, point was that .gov is "watching".....

https://www.thedrive.com/news/diese...ruck-after-state-orders-deleted-emissions-fix

Kinda reminds me of "Who will watch, the Watchers?"

This sentence stood out to me.

" Selling vehicles with deleted emissions equipment is illegal in New Jersey, and rather than returning the Ram to its stock configuration, he opted to turn in his plates so he could keep it for off-road use."

I see more than a few "emissions delete" vehicles listed for sale up here. State laws are very different as we know, so this was a state issue and not a federal one.

 

[McMXi]

Look to the north and across the border. Seek and ye shall find.
P.S. - it will not void your entire warranty. There is the possibility that specific parts may not be covered if the dealer chooses to disclose it to K.

I spoke to the local Kubota dealer about programmers and such many months ago, and the manager told me that they can't install such upgrades (obviously), but also that they're under no obligation to inform anyone of modifications to a tractor. They have the option to inform Kubota if they believe that the modification was responsible for the failure of a warrantied part, but that's at their discretion.

As for contacting some government agency, hell no, unless the ballast in the rear tires appears to be a white powdery substance that seems to be affecting the technicians.

 

[SDT]

What's the deal for obtaining emissions delete kits. Yes I'm sure it would void factory warranty but what about an out of warranty unit.
I've heard there are kits that remove all the Regen dpf filter nonsense. Just wondering about legality, resale etc

Don't know of any emissions delete "kits" for Kubota tractors.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

in my parts we have 2 local companies that make deletes on semi's and ag. tractors and all forms of diesel engines. Most of their customers are semi's though. Drive past their shops and you can see mounds of removed emissions stuff as they both have been doing it for many years.

I have no first hand experience only what is discussed locally by others.

the general belief and experience around here is that making the deletes is successful but a slew of problems regularly pop up that means repairs can only be made at the shop that did the delete as dealers won't risk touching equipment afterwards. The deletes don't stop the need for specialized software for other problems like diagnostics so needing access to dealers and their computers is kinda important for a whole slew of problems that could arise not related to just dpf / DEF changes and trying to figure out what problems are.

Also it seems deleted equipment is really hard to re-sell as limits buyers interested due to repair concerns, the difficulty in even getting diagnostics on problems made, safety/emission check stops for road based equipment that could take the equipment out of service, etc... Guys who have done deletes seem to say they plan to drive their stuff forever and never sell and the need to do diagnostics is never going to be needed as tractors should last 60 years if maintained.

 

[McMXi]

in my parts we have 2 local companies that make deletes on semi's and ag. tractors and all forms of diesel engines. Most of their customers are semi's though. Drive past their shops and you can see mounds of removed emissions stuff as they both have been doing it for many years.

I have no first hand experience only what is discussed locally by others.

the general belief and experience around here is that making the deletes is successful but a slew of problems regularly pop up that means repairs can only be made at the shop that did the delete as dealers won't risk touching equipment afterwards. The deletes don't stop the need for specialized software for other problems like diagnostics so needing access to dealers and their computers is kinda important for a whole slew of problems that could arise not related to just dpf / DEF changes and trying to figure out what problems are.

Also it seems deleted equipment is really hard to re-sell as limits buyers interested due to repair concerns, the difficulty in even getting diagnostics on problems made, safety/emission check stops for road based equipment that could take the equipment out of service, etc... Guys who have done deletes seem to say they plan to drive their stuff forever and never sell and the need to do diagnostics is never going to be needed as tractors should last 60 years if maintained.

Preventing EGR, removing restrictive DPF filters, reducing heat under the hood, reducing fuel consumption, lowering rpm, improving fuel mapping, getting heat away from the turbo faster etc., can only reduce the likelihood of problems down the road. Other than the lines of code required for regen related stuff, all other diagnostic features are maintained, so any troubleshooting down the road is no more complex. The truth is that all of the burden of cost has been passed down to the end user.

 

[mike paulson]

OK If I decide to buy a larger machine I'll definitely make sure it's a low hour unit pre DPF

 

[Selkirk_D]

You could run into problems with EPA if you get caught. Also if a seller gets busted, you can bet they’ll be looking for the customer list. In Utah, certain counties will impound your diesel truck if you’re caught with a delete kit installed. I’m sure places like Commiefornia are similar. Tractor less of a risk unless dealer rats you off. I agree that buying clean pre def is a good strategy. DEF/EGR systems are a problem waiting to happen. They suck and are expensive to fix.

 

[McMXi]

You could run into problems with EPA if you get caught. Also if a seller gets busted, you can bet they’ll be looking for the customer list. In Utah, certain counties will impound your diesel truck if you’re caught with a delete kit installed. I’m sure places like Commiefornia are similar. Tractor less of a risk unless dealer rats you off. I agree that buying clean pre def is a good strategy. DEF/EGR systems are a problem waiting to happen. They suck and are expensive to fix.

Out of interest, can you provide any documentation that states that a private individual is not permitted to modify the emissions of a vehicle intended for off-road use? Also, is a police officer or EPA agent (if there is such a thing) allowed to search a vehicle that's on your property without a search warrant, unless there are exigent circumstances?

I think we all know that Kubota dealerships aren't going to modify the emissions of any tractor for obvious reasons, but what makes anyone think that they're obligated to notify someone if a tractor shows up that has been modified. If an owner wanted to trade in a tractor on a new purchase that has had the emissions modified, it would be refused by the dealership, but they're under no legal obligation to say anything to anyone. I know this because I've spoken to my local Kubota dealership about this very thing.

All of this fear-mongering is laughable. Do a search for diesel emission delete kits for trucks and you'll find many companies both in the US and over that border that are currently selling kits. These are kits for trucks that are intended to be used on the road. Ooohhh .... perhaps they're all part of an EPA sting operation.

 

[DaveFromMi]

I have seen several profiles here whose 1st message was to inquire about DPF emulators.