FOLLOW UP AND NEW QUESTION. Tractor dies, then starts right back up?

[Evad]

Hey team thanks for all your advice on my problem back in January. Turns out it wasn't any of the suggestions below Instead it was my key switch. I know this because it has continued to degrade over the past two months to the point I now must replace it.

My follow up question to you is - how does this switch come out? I thought I can unscrew the band on the front and just push it out but with the band removed it won't budge. I can't find any videos on how to replace this key switch so thought I would ask the experts what the trick is to replacing. I am hoping I dont have to remove the fairing to get this done.

Any help or suggestions are welcome.
David

Original Message Below....
This was a new one for me. I was grading our road like usual, engine at full temp and about 20 minutes into grading the tractor suddenly dies. Like somebody flipped an on/off switch. The entire dash when dark. Then 3-4 seconds later, the dash lit up again. I cranked the engine and it started right up. Drove it home and looked it over but don't see anything. Drove it for another 20 minutes with no issues.

Seems like something electrical tripped, shorted or lost connection. Any ideas what to look for?

Thank you!

 

[Dave_eng]

Plse provide a picture of the top of your battery and another where the negative cable attaches to the engine or frame.
How old is your tractor and how many hours on it?
Dave

 

[GreensvilleJay]

One or both of the battery cables is 'loose'......

 

[D2Cat]

Sounds like maybe your OPS (operator presence switch) shut it off. were you leaning to a side when it shut off?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

No... from the OP...... The entire dash when dark.

That means ALL power was lost. OPS will not do that.....just kill engine...

 

[retired farmer]

One or both of the battery cables is 'loose'......

Please excuse me if I am ignorant, but does not the altenator/dino provide enough power to keeps things running even if no battery power? It does on my vehicles.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Not necessarily, depends on how it was designed and wired into the machine.
Will need to see wiring diagram as 'one size does NOT fit all'.....

One scenario... battery is fully charged, so alternator goes to 'sleep' ( NOT supplying any power ) ..battery ground cable opens, kills all power to tractor, engine shuts down. Have to remember there's usually a 'computer' involved and 'somehow' the alternator would have KNOW 'loss of battery' and then wakeup(takes time..), supply energy to it's field coils, all before engine stopped spinning.... classic 'chicken and egg' problem. I have designed many computer based products that run off AC with battery backup that need to keep some sections alive ( say Real Time Clock ). Those parts need to know 'no AC and to switch over to battery' and keep battery recharged, but not over charged.

As for 'cars', some now have the ECU control the alternator ! So the cheap alternator could be 100%, it's the $$$$$ ECU that needs replacing, grrrrr

 

[Evad]

Plse provide a picture of the top of your battery and another where the negative cable attaches to the engine or frame.
How old is your tractor and how many hours on it?
Dave

Thanks for the responses. It's a 2018 3301, I bought it at 250 hours in 2021 and it now only has 370 hours on it. I am unclear if this is the original battery or not. Not much in the way of markings. They dont appear loose but could use a cleaning for sure, including the ground connection to the tractor.

 

[MOOTS]

Thanks for the responses. It's a 2018 3301, I bought it at 250 hours in 2021 and it now only has 370 hours on it. I am unclear if this is the original battery or not. Not much in the way of markings. They dont appear loose but could use a cleaning for sure, including the ground connection to the tractor.

View attachment 146727

I had the same thing happen to mine, driving and it was like someone shut the key off. Started right back up. Did some poking with meter and found one of those slow blow fuses (near over flow tank) loose in its holder. Bent the tabs a bit and hasn’t happened since.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Any break at the battery would not do this, the alternator would keep it going.
Like @MOOTS said, check the main fuses for a good connection.
The other option is a bad connection at or in the main switch.

 

[Dave_eng]

Plse provide a picture of the top of your battery and another where the negative cable attaches to the engine or frame.
How old is your tractor and how many hours on it?
Dave

AS a cheap first attempt, remove both battery cables and completely polish any metal surface including the ground to frame.
I have seen worse "top of battery" photos but certainly your could be better!
Dave

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

AS a cheap first attempt, remove both battery cables and completely polish any metal surface including the ground to frame.
I have seen worse "top of battery" photos but certainly your could be better!
Dave

Dave, removing the battery cables while it's running will not cause it to die suddenly with no power to everything, Unless the alternator is completely shot.

 

[Evad]

Thanks all I will check those things and let you know what I find. Just glad to hear its not anyting devastating/expensive.

The battery is probably 5+ years old - do I use it until it dies? Or should I replace it? Is this something I can find at an auto shop or do I need to find a Tractor place to replace it?

 

[airbiscuit]

The battery isn't going to go stone dead, and then restart the tractor 3-4 seconds later. Clean the battery cables and battery post. Check the ground connection.

 

[RCW]

Like the others said, sounds like the battery is likely fine. Wouldn't start right back up.

A battery tender/maintainer does extend useful life in my opinion.

When the time comes to replace the battery, you can usually get some specs for the battery's size on the parts diagrams. Any place that sells batteries will have something you can use. Some guys measure them, note positive/negative post locations. Then buy the most CCA they can get that'll fit.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

curious, I downloaded the L3301.... WSM from kubotabooks. If it is the correct diagram....page 578 shows that both the battery and alternator feed a 40 amp slow blow fuse. IF it's not 100% properly 'seated', it might have vibrated out ? Would need to see the type of fuse, but easy to check.It should be 'hard' to yank out.
You describe 'dash went black', so NO power to it. Battery +12 goes to 50 a slowblo then the 40. so NOT the 50 amp fuse. If battery side was 'faulty', then we have been told alternator will run tractor, but dash is 'black'. No power
The only common point is the 40 amp fuse.
Now If the engine dies on the 'alternator only' test then it's NOT the 40 amp fuse, suggesting a bad ground from the battery.

do at your own risk test......
One interesting test would be to start engine, then pull the 50 amp fuse. if engine stays running, then the alternator indeed CAN run the tractor. WARNING !!!! Pulling that fuse might 'fry' the computer ! Check online or with expert first !!!! Some Kubota ECUs are known to magically die changing the battery.

 

[Dave_eng]

Dave, removing the battery cables while it's running will not cause it to die suddenly with no power to everything, Unless the alternator is completely shot.

NIW .
I know what you are saying is correct with older models. When I saw that the L3301 had an ECU and not a stop solenoid ...............

Dave

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

NIW .
I know what you are saying is correct with older models. When I saw that the L3301 had an ECU and not a stop solenoid ...............

Dave

ECU or not, It will still act the same way.
The ECU doesn't care where it's getting its power from.

 

[Evad]

Bumping the thread. I edited the OP with new info and my new question. But here it is again in case its easier to reply to this:

Hey team thanks for all your advice on my problem back in January. Turns out it wasn't any of the suggestions below Instead it was my key switch. I know this because it has continued to degrade over the past two months to the point I now must replace it.

My follow up question to you is - how does this switch come out? I thought I can unscrew the band on the front and just push it out but with the band removed it won't budge. I can't find any videos on how to replace this key switch so thought I would ask the experts what the trick is to replacing. I am hoping I dont have to remove the fairing to get this done.

Any help or suggestions are welcome.
David

 

[ayak]

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