In search of a better truck for towing the M6060 and folding cutter.

[McMXi]

I have an '02 F250 Lariat Super Duty 7.3L with a chip and programmer and it's a great truck for towing the boat, or trailers with reasonable loads, but last summer it kind of sucked at pulling the M6060 and RC3712 on the 22ft trailer. It got me out and back, and once the TC locked up in 3rd gear it pulled ok on flat ground but struggled on any significant hill. I thought about buying a newer 6.7L Ford Super Duty in a year or two but I'm not sure that I want to get into all of the emission stuff on a new diesel.

I have a 16ft PJ dump trailer which works well behind the F250, although when fully loaded with 7,500lb of firewood you definitely know it's there. So my thought the other day is why not buy a big dump truck with a dump bed and gooseneck ball and sell the dump trailer. I'd only use the truck to pull tractors and implements around, pick up firewood, pick up gravel and move dirt etc. I'd use the F250 for the boat, going into town, roadtrips, and pulling the smaller single axle dump trailer.

I saw an '01 F-650 2WD for sale that has a Cummins engine, dump bed and a manual 6-speed transmission with less than 45,500 miles on the odometer. The interior of the cab is very much like my F250 with many parts being interchangeable.

My good friend in Hawaii who has a successful towing and recovery business is telling me to buy something like a 2005 Peterbilt 330 Crew Cab Western Hauler but that's $63K and I think way more than I need. The F-650 below is under $30k and if I sell the dump trailer that would drop the price by $10k or so. So what say you? Is this a dumb idea or does it have some merit?

Here's the F-650.

 

[RCW]

Certainly looks like a great rig.

Looks like it's been polished up for sale. 45K miles is a little concerning over 24 years.

Some of the Fords (International?) diesels of the era had some turbo issues. I think smaller trucks. You've had similar trucks, so not news to you. My SIL recently bought an F-350 dually of the era.

Lot of guys say you can't beat a Cummins.....

Knew a few guys that went MOPAR in the 90's just for the Cummins in their pickups.....

 

[McMXi]

Certainly looks like a great rig.

Looks like it's been polished up for sale. 45K miles is a little concerning over 24 years.

Some of the Fords (International?) diesels of the era had some turbo issues. I think smaller trucks. You've had similar trucks, so not news to you. My SIL recently bought an F-350 dually of the era.

Lot of guys say you can't beat a Cummins.....

Knew a few guys that went MOPAR in the 90's just for the Cummins in their pickups.....

I spoke with a salesman at the dealership where the truck is located and he provided lots of information. The original owner was in WY and was/is a welder, fabricator and farmer. The truck has been really well looked after with no rust on the frame or bed. The dealership painted the bed to cover up all of the normal wear and tear marks from use.

I have a good friend in Idaho where the truck is and will ask him to stop by and take a look at it. I don't want to spend a lot of money for something that might do 1,000 miles or less a year. Of course I have the M1078 but I don't know how good that would be when it comes to towing 18k to 20k pounds of trailer and equipment. Perhaps it'd be awesome, I just don't know.

 

[jyoutz]

I spoke with a salesman at the dealership where the truck is located and he provided lots of information. The original owner was in WY and was/is a welder, fabricator and farmer. The truck has been really well looked after with no rust on the frame or bed. The dealership painted the bed to cover up all of the normal wear and tear marks from use.

I have a good friend in Idaho where the truck is and will ask him to stop by and take a look at it. I don't want to spend a lot of money for something that might do 1,000 miles or less a year. Of course I have the M1078 but I don't know how good that would be when it comes to towing 18k to 20k pounds of trailer and equipment. Perhaps it'd be awesome, I just don't know.

If you have use for the dump truck go for it. But I’m sure that a one ton duelly with a Cummins would handle the job very well.

 

[McMXi]

If you have use for the dump truck go for it. But I’m sure that a one ton duelly with a Cummins would handle the job very well.

Any particular model to look at?

 

[dirtydeed]

Nice truck. Class 6 I believe.

You're getting into CDL territory. Do you have one (CDL) or would you only be using it for personal reasons?

 

[McMXi]

Nice truck. Class 6 I believe.

You're getting into CDL territory. Do you have one (CDL) or would you only be using it for personal reasons?

Personal reasons. GCWR is listed as 26,000lb so I'd like something that could handle a KX057-5 or similar as well as my bigger tractor and folding cutter. The salesman drove it from WY back to ID and said that it runs really well but top speed is slow at around 73mph. I don't need to go 73mph around the valley, but would like to prevent 20 cars and trucks stacking up behind me on the 6 miles of single lane and somewhat hilly stretch near my house. If I can get up to 65mph in under a week I'd be happy.

My friend in Hawaii doesn't think the F-650 would be good on hills with the 6-speed manual transmission.

 

[McMXi]

Speaking of my friend in Hawaii, he just bought a 2018 Kubota SVL-95 with 1,600 hours on it.

 

[McMXi]

Nice truck. Class 6 I believe.

You're getting into CDL territory. Do you have one (CDL) or would you only be using it for personal reasons?

Hey, what truck do you use to pull your equipment around. What's the approximate weight and are you happy with the performance?

 

[jyoutz]

Any 1 ton Ram duelly with a Cummins. I love mine; the Cummins is an awesome industrial motor. I’m sure I’ll get flamed, but the Cummins is leagues ahead of the powerstroke and duramax engines, especially when it comes to maintenance costs. I doubt you would consider those but don’t look at a truck older than 2005. The transmissions prior the the 2005 re-design wouldn’t hold up to the torque of that engine.

 

[McMXi]

Any 1 ton Ram duelly with a Cummins. I love mine; the Cummins is an awesome industrial motor. I’m sure I’ll get flamed, but the Cummins is leagues ahead of the powerstroke and duramax engines, especially when it comes to maintenance costs. I doubt you would consider those but don’t look at a truck older than 2005. The transmissions prior the the 2005 re-design wouldn’t hold up to the torque of that engine.

The F-650 I'm looking at has a Cummins engine, air brakes and a 6-speed transmission. I think it's the 5.9L but I can't be sure.

 

[jyoutz]

The F-650 I'm looking at has a Cummins engine, air brakes and a 6-speed transmission. I think it's the 5.9L but I can't be sure.

The 5.9 is actually the best. Extremely simple maintenance: change oil and filter, change fuel and air filter and close the hood. It’s a 500k+ miles engine, with some passing 1M miles. And no def. It’s what I have in my truck; made till mid year 2007.

 

[dirtydeed]

Hey, what truck do you use to pull your equipment around. What's the approximate weight and are you happy with the performance?

Oh, mines a dinky 2015 Ram 3500 cab/chassis 6.4 gasser aisin 6spd auto with 4.44 rear. It's just fine with anything in the dump bed (even extra heavy) but as soon as I hook a trailer to it it's pretty doggy. It does what I need it to do. Pulls like a freight train in 1st gear then promptly falls on its face in second if I'm pulling a hill from a stop.

14K GVWR, 24K GCWR
Unlaiden (but with my tools) its about 9,700 lbs. Trailer loaded with mini and extra buckets (lots of chains and binders) is just under 10K.

There's no way it would pull your stuff other than downhill and wouldn't be able to stop it either.

I did pull a bit larger machine (8.5 K) and 12K CTL with a 2020 GMC 3500 cab/chassis duramax. That pulled pretty well, but the rest of the truck sucked. Terrible driving position in GM's (IMO).

I would agree with others that any dually in diesel trim would be right for you. Possibly an F450 (GVWR of 19.5K). I hear good things about the Ford 7.3 gasser but I'd think that you'd be missing out on the engine braking.

I think a fully loaded KX057 clocks in at about 14-15K with some additional buckets in your trailer.

 

[Russell King]

Looking at the placement of the gooseneck ball, it looks like it is behind the rear wheels of the vehicle. That means it is “sort of” a bumper pull that is unloading the front axle. As I understand the advantage of the gooseneck trailer it is to distribute the trailer load onto the truck frame and load the front axle more. There is then the additional advantage that it turns and backs differently (better).

I believe you only have bumper pull trailers now so that may not be any disadvantage to you at all.

Another issue I see is that you will be loading and dumping onto the gooseneck ball, which may mean extra cleaning up of the area after handling dirt or gravel. I don’t see that would be a concern for firewood but I think you will end up hauling other materials in the bed.

Also, is there any way to add a tailgate to that bed? Does your state have any restrictions on hauling materials without a tailgate?

 

[dirtydeed]

Personal reasons. GCWR is listed as 26,000lb so I'd like something that could handle a KX057-5 or similar as well as my bigger tractor and folding cutter.

Your 26,000 lbs is the GVWR, not GCWR. The GCWR for that truck is likely in excess of 40K. That's quite a bit of truck!

edit: agree with Russell's comments above. That truck needs a pintle at the very least.

 

[McMXi]

Looking at the placement of the gooseneck ball, it looks like it is behind the rear wheels of the vehicle. That means it is “sort of” a bumper pull that is unloading the front axle. As I understand the advantage of the gooseneck trailer it is to distribute the trailer load onto the truck frame and load the front axle more. There is then the additional advantage that it turns and backs differently (better).

I believe you only have bumper pull trailers now so that may not be any disadvantage to you at all.

Another issue I see is that you will be loading and dumping onto the gooseneck ball, which may mean extra cleaning up of the area after handling dirt or gravel. I don’t see that would be a concern for firewood but I think you will end up hauling other materials in the bed.

Also, is there any way to add a tailgate to that bed? Does your state have any restrictions on hauling materials without a tailgate?

Great points. Yes, I noticed location of the ball and I'd rather it were centered between the axles. This is something that I could easily correct even if it means a well and cover plate in the middle of the bed. I would need to make up a gate of some sort in order to haul wood or gravel home. Again, not a problem for me.

I don't have a gooseneck trailer at present but I most likely will this summer. I want a 25ft + 5ft model rated at 20k at least.

 

[McMXi]

Oh, mines a dinky 2015 Ram 3500 cab/chassis 6.4 gasser aisin 6spd auto with 4.44 rear. It's just fine with anything in the dump bed (even extra heavy) but as soon as I hook a trailer to it it's pretty doggy. It does what I need it to do. Pulls like a freight train in 1st gear then promptly falls on its face in second if I'm pulling a hill from a stop.

14K GVWR, 24K GCWR
Unlaiden (but with my tools) its about 9,700 lbs. Trailer loaded with mini and extra buckets (lots of chains and binders) is just under 10K.

There's no way it would pull your stuff other than downhill and wouldn't be able to stop it either.

I did pull a bit larger machine (8.5 K) and 12K CTL with a 2020 GMC 3500 cab/chassis duramax. That pulled pretty well, but the rest of the truck sucked. Terrible driving position in GM's (IMO).

I would agree with others that any dually in diesel trim would be right for you. Possibly an F450 (GVWR of 19.5K). I hear good things about the Ford 7.3 gasser but I'd think that you'd be missing out on the engine braking.

I think a fully loaded KX057 clocks in at about 14-15K with some additional buckets in your trailer.

View attachment 147614

Thanks for the response and ooops re the GCWR. Yes, the F-650 is a lot of truck and I'm ok with the simplity of manual windows and such. I just want a truck that will allow me to safely move equipment around the valley, particularly since I intend to do even more tractor related jobs this summer. One of those Peterbilt trucks are amazing, but I don't want to look at $65k of truck sitting for months on end.

If I can find the right truck, I might even sell the M1078. It only has 5,000 miles on it so it's worth something. I don't have much into it so it's not like I need to make a ton of money from it.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If I understand it right you will need a CDL to drive it just because it has air brakes.
You will have to jump all those hoops too.

 

[McMXi]

If I understand it right you will need a CDL to drive it just because it has air brakes.
You will have to jump all those hoops too.

A CDL isn't required for the M1078 and that has air brakes. I'll have to do some research for sure. I spoke with my friend in Idaho this evening and he's going to stop by the dealership and take a good look at the truck. I've sent him a link to the listing so that he can compare the dealership photos to actual condition. This is early days and I don't know where it'll end up, but this F-650 could be in my future.

I like that it's the same cab as my '02 in terms of the dash at least.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If I can find the right truck, I might even sell the M1078.

YELLS ACROSS HOUSE... How much money is in the safe! I need it NOW!