jyoutz
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The idiocy of your comment is breathtaking. Tucker Carlson fan boy?
Ukraine
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Uh oh, let the games begin. Right Wing vs Left Wing. This thread will be short lived. Better get your jabs in quick if you're gonna.
We can pose and philosophize all we want, but the ONLY person that knows what Putin wants is Putin. We will sit in judgement of what he's done after he's done it, and then wonder why we didn't do something to prevent it. This isn't really a surprise. We knew Iraq would invade Kuwait. We let that happen, knowing it. And true to form, the left points at Trump and the right as the root of this incident. Ahem, how's your Prez doing? In less than one year in office, fuel prices have more than doubled. Be careful what you ask for, you may just get it.
The world has known this invasion was coming for MONTHS, and no one moved to help Ukraine, nor did Ukraine make any decisive or effective choices to avoid the bloodshed. Is it any wonder they're getting the @#$% kicked out of 'em and are screaming for help? Their military probably couldn't beat a good basketball team, so it will become another long-drawn-out guerilla war that will likely end up with the same thing that happened to Russia's forces the first time in Afghanistan. I think history will repeat itself, because Russia didn't learn anything the first time about fighting folks who are protecting their home. They finally just took their ball and went home. Ukraine has had 10 years to build and improve their military and choose an alliance while they were out from under Putin after he gave them the chance. Perhaps he's just proving his point, that he thinks he can rebuild the USSR. I don't think he'll have the internal support of the people that he needs. Yeah, a lot of 'em will go to Gulags, but he can't send 'em all.
Just playing devil's advocate, not really voicing my view of the situation.
We can pose and philosophize all we want, but the ONLY person that knows what Putin wants is Putin. We will sit in judgement of what he's done after he's done it, and then wonder why we didn't do something to prevent it. This isn't really a surprise. We knew Iraq would invade Kuwait. We let that happen, knowing it. And true to form, the left points at Trump and the right as the root of this incident. Ahem, how's your Prez doing? In less than one year in office, fuel prices have more than doubled. Be careful what you ask for, you may just get it.
The world has known this invasion was coming for MONTHS, and no one moved to help Ukraine, nor did Ukraine make any decisive or effective choices to avoid the bloodshed. Is it any wonder they're getting the @#$% kicked out of 'em and are screaming for help? Their military probably couldn't beat a good basketball team, so it will become another long-drawn-out guerilla war that will likely end up with the same thing that happened to Russia's forces the first time in Afghanistan. I think history will repeat itself, because Russia didn't learn anything the first time about fighting folks who are protecting their home. They finally just took their ball and went home. Ukraine has had 10 years to build and improve their military and choose an alliance while they were out from under Putin after he gave them the chance. Perhaps he's just proving his point, that he thinks he can rebuild the USSR. I don't think he'll have the internal support of the people that he needs. Yeah, a lot of 'em will go to Gulags, but he can't send 'em all.
Just playing devil's advocate, not really voicing my view of the situation.
motionclone
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Civilians, mostly women it seems are sitting outside in Ukraine making molotov cocktails in preperation for a last stand and you guys are talking about local politics?
Two thoughts from books I read years ago...
1). One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
2). A lion had killed his meal. But a pack of jackals have surrounded the large lion. Every time the Lion tries to take a bite of his catch one of the many jackal runs up an attacks his flank. As he turns to chase that jackal away another jackal goes after the food he caught. Then the Lion turns to defend his catch.... In the end the Lion can't both eat his catch, defend himself and prevent the jackals from stealing his food
(The classic death by a 1,000 cuts).
I agree the world has changed from the post WW2 peace that Europe in particular has enjoyed.
Yes I am aware that there have been several long running proxy wars since WW2 so the entire world has not been at peace...
I do ask this two pronged question that I ask you to consider to yourself....
If you personally were in Ukraine what would you do? As I see the citizens of Ukraine have 3 choices 1) Accept that Russia is going to in command of your life. 2). Flee to another country. 3). Take up whatever measures you are capable of to fight the Russians knowing that it could cost you your life.
The second part of the question is more philosophical... The USA has been imploding into tribalism and infighting. The source and the reason for the increase in tribalism can be debated. But as a country we are our own worse enemy. Our politics is perhaps the best example of this. No longer is it the norm for both the republicans and democrats to work together for the good of the entire nation. But rather it's become a "blood" sport to one up the other side. This has created a vacuum. The likes of China, Russia, Iran and other view this as an opportunity to steal the Lions food....
Now back to the topic of this thread... I'm sure everyone of the Ukrainian citizens that is making a choice right now is making the best choice that they can. But for all of them choosing fight my hat is off for them. I wish them success in pushing back the Russians.... As a song a number of years ago said in it's title... "Praise the lord and pass the ammunition"
1). One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
2). A lion had killed his meal. But a pack of jackals have surrounded the large lion. Every time the Lion tries to take a bite of his catch one of the many jackal runs up an attacks his flank. As he turns to chase that jackal away another jackal goes after the food he caught. Then the Lion turns to defend his catch.... In the end the Lion can't both eat his catch, defend himself and prevent the jackals from stealing his food
(The classic death by a 1,000 cuts).
I agree the world has changed from the post WW2 peace that Europe in particular has enjoyed.
Yes I am aware that there have been several long running proxy wars since WW2 so the entire world has not been at peace...
I do ask this two pronged question that I ask you to consider to yourself....
If you personally were in Ukraine what would you do? As I see the citizens of Ukraine have 3 choices 1) Accept that Russia is going to in command of your life. 2). Flee to another country. 3). Take up whatever measures you are capable of to fight the Russians knowing that it could cost you your life.
The second part of the question is more philosophical... The USA has been imploding into tribalism and infighting. The source and the reason for the increase in tribalism can be debated. But as a country we are our own worse enemy. Our politics is perhaps the best example of this. No longer is it the norm for both the republicans and democrats to work together for the good of the entire nation. But rather it's become a "blood" sport to one up the other side. This has created a vacuum. The likes of China, Russia, Iran and other view this as an opportunity to steal the Lions food....
Now back to the topic of this thread... I'm sure everyone of the Ukrainian citizens that is making a choice right now is making the best choice that they can. But for all of them choosing fight my hat is off for them. I wish them success in pushing back the Russians.... As a song a number of years ago said in it's title... "Praise the lord and pass the ammunition"
You, sir, have hit the nail squarely on the head!
I would only amend this slightly, and that is to say that our politicians (BOTH Republican and Democrats), are this country's worst enemies, more so than the common people. All those people in Congress swore upon the Bible allegiance to the United States. Instead, their allegiance is to their respective political parties and to lining their own pockets.
jyoutz
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Your words are exactly the same as those spoken by the America first isolationists in the 1930s, referring to Adolf Hitler and Mousollini.
Poohbear
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The thug Putin can't fight a war without money. Give US oil/gas industry permits on Fed land,' fracking permits, pipeline permits etc and get the price down killing the Russkie money supply. There is other monetary sanctions also .
I don't think Putin will stop in just Ukraine. He will pause a while before rolling into Poland to get a better feal for what the world won't do to stop him. He is cut from old hard line commies and wants the whole world
I don't think Putin will stop in just Ukraine. He will pause a while before rolling into Poland to get a better feal for what the world won't do to stop him. He is cut from old hard line commies and wants the whole world
Poohbear
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jyoutz
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US oil companies already have 26 million acres of oil and gas permits on federal lands to drill. If they aren’t drilling there, it’s due to economic factors.
jyoutz
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US oil companies already have 26 million acres of oil and gas permits on federal lands to drill. If they aren’t drilling there, it’s due to economic factors.
I agree with your assessment of the situation. But it’s not just left vs right wing. I’m a centrist and despise them both.
He is such a danger to the entire world I wonder why someone doesn't pull a 'Mossad like' operation and end him with a 'natural looking' death.
No one takes credit. The world doesn't know for sure and he is gone.
Nope. Nor would I vote for a racist, misogynist bigot with three failed marriages - or a self made man who inherited his millions and yet went bankrupt four times.
Russia will steam roller Ukraine and install it's own puppet regime. All the brow beating in the world won't change Putin's behaviour. And in 2 years the news will be nothing but the next US election.
I'd bet on that. Set your calendar to do a follow up posting in 2 years time.
Bmyers
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You need to read the Budapest Memoranda and then decide if we have no duty? They gave up their nuclear weapons based on the agreement of protection and recognition as a nation.
This guy has serious big ones! For a guy who is probably going to accidentally killed by the Russians, when offered a way to escape the Ukraine by the US:
Zelensky quote
“the fight is here” and that he needed anti-tank ammunition, “not a ride.”
Zelensky quote
“the fight is here” and that he needed anti-tank ammunition, “not a ride.”
North Idaho Wolfman
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I completely agree that I don't think he's going to stop at just taking Ukraine.
But I don't think he's foolish or stupid enough to try doing anything on or near Poland, as being a NATO country, it would give quite a few countries the "legal right" to kick them back to the stone age.
jyoutz
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Putin was fond of poisoning his enemies underwear. Sound like a great option for the CIA.
jyoutz
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Very good points. Ukraine has natural resources, including food production capabilities, that Russia wants. I don't agree that no one noticed while the elections here were manipulated etc., my teeth were ground down at all the times that kind of thing was evident. Breaks my heart to see all the times infighting is promoted over collaboration.
Why a New Era of War is Dawning — And What Putin Really Wants
What Russia’s Invasion Really Means For the World — And the Futureeand.co
interesting article on Putins Long game
Had a nightmare the other night that Russian tanks were bivouacked in my back pasture and I was trying to organize the neighbors into a resistance force (?!!!).