Wintertime hydraulics not working and related maintenance question

[Hman0217]

Hello

Today it was 12 degrees and I fired up the l series to push some snow and the hydraulics were not working. I got the tractor to move about 30 feet and the bucket up about 6 inches and that was all she wrote. I fear that there may water in the hydraulic system freezing in the orifices. The level is fine.

Question 1: how can I diagnose whether its a water issue or something else?

A little relevant background: Last year I poured some hydraulic fluid in that seemed a little thin and once I saw that first thick glob goop out I knew exactly what happened. I moved the tractor about 30 feet to get to level solid ground and drained the system and left it unplugged overnight. Then I added the rotella back in. With the understanding that this oil absorbs up to 1% its volume in water I called it good and ran it that way for the rest of the season.

If indeed I have water in there, is this enough? Should I flush, fill, run and flush a second time? And if so, is there something more cost effective than T4 oil to do the middle step?

EDIT: I meant to say Kubota Hydraulic Oil not Rotella.

Thanks in advance

Hany

 

[imnukensc]

Rotella T4 is engine oil. It is not hydraulic fluid.

 

[Yooper]

My first thought is pull the hydraulic filter and check for signs of ice.

 

[Hman0217]

Rotella T4 is engine oil. It is not hydraulic fluid.

Sorry I mis-wrote. It was indeed hydraulic oil

 

[GreensvilleJay]

OK.. did you put the OLD oil back in or 100% brand new oil AND a new filter ?

As for 'draining the oil', overnight might not be long enough. I had a JD HST and after 3 DAYS it was still dripping !
Also is there a 'screen' on your machine? On the BX23S ,there's a long, cylindrical screen/filter on left side of HST that's supposed to be 'inspected'......

Also, when k-k-k-kold, oil is 'thick' NEEDS to be warmed up

 

[Hman0217]

OK.. did you put the OLD oil back in or 100% brand new oil AND a new filter ?

As for 'draining the oil', overnight might not be long enough. I had a JD HST and after 3 DAYS it was still dripping !
Also is there a 'screen' on your machine? On the BX23S ,there's a long, cylindrical screen/filter on left side of HST that's supposed to be 'inspected'......

Also, when k-k-k-kold, oil is 'thick' NEEDS to be warmed up

No I bought brand new oil and used that.

Noted on the time. When I looked the next morning it didn't seem to still be dripping.

There is a filter and I did replace it when I re-filled but I will check it for ice crystals when I go home later

Thanks

 

[GreensvilleJay]

good ,you replace all... that's important.
most of the oil drains out fast,but less oil takes longer, especially when cold so if you can afford it, another day is better. After day 2 ,I put paper towel down and day3 morning it was totally 'oily' which surprised me.

 

[The Evil Twin]

How long did you let the thing warm up at high idle before moving?

 

[Hman0217]

How long did you let the thing warm up at high idle before moving?

I left it at LOW idle for about 7-8 minutes before trying. Are you suggesting it should have been at high idle?

 

[RCW]

I left it at LOW idle for about 7-8 minutes before trying. Are you suggesting it should have been at high idle?

Somewhere I’ve seen recommended warm up times depending on temperature.

You might want to consult your Operators Manual.

At 12 degrees, I don’t think 7-8 minutes is adequate. Low idle is probably fine initially. Again, check your manual.

I would warm up my little BX longer than 8 minutes at 12 degrees and it probably has half the fluid capacity of your L.

 

[mcmxi]

How long did you let the thing warm up at high idle before moving?

This is a good question. I'm not able to get one of the rear remotes in "float" until the hydraulic oil is sufficiently warm.

After letting the tractor warm up for as long as necessary at 1,200rpm to 1,400 rpm, I raise and lower the loader a few times and do the same with the 3-point to get warmer oil circulating through the system. I do this before I try to move the tractor.

 

[ayak]

 

[The Evil Twin]

I left it at LOW idle for about 7-8 minutes before trying. Are you suggesting it should have been at high idle?

Low idle is not going to generate enough heat. It also is not good for cylinder walls.
I run my machine at 1100- 1200 for at least 15 minutes before I drive to my work area. In the case I'm moving snow (as recently) I'll go 20 min. I also have a sheet of Coroplast covering 1/2 the radiator/ trans cooler.

 

[DarrenT]

View attachment 146684

I've had similar trouble with my little BX2380 for the last 3 months. Started with water in the oil, did a full flush (with kubota oil) of the whole system on a +40F day. two weeks later, @~25F started it to warm up and it blew the transmission filter wide open. Upon inspection, the filter internals were completely collpased. Assumed water, drained the rest of the oil, observed no ice or water, flushed it all out again and refilled with more kubota oil. Ran it yesterday for ~3 hours, checked all oils and fluids, noted the transmission oil clear and at correct level.
Came out at 0500 this morning, turned it on to warm up, and blew the transmission filter wide open yet again. The oil looked like cream.
Tech came out, removed filter (collapsed internals again) no ice or water observed. Tech is as baffled as I am. I had ZERO issues with this up until late fall of 2024, this is a 2022 model. Pump problem? I thought it was user error at first, so i just did the legwork on flushing everything out. Now I'm past thinking it's user error and more of an internal problem. I'm 15 gallons of oil and 3 filters out at this point, and lord knows how many hours lost.

 

[mcmxi]

Low idle is not going to generate enough heat. It also is not good for cylinder walls.
I run my machine at 1100- 1200 for at least 15 minutes before I drive to my work area. In the case I'm moving snow (as recently) I'll go 20 min. I also have a sheet of Coroplast covering 1/2 the radiator/ trans cooler.

I find it interesting how the M6060 warms up so much faster than the MX6000 (any time of year), based on the coolant temperature gauge at least. The M6060 holds 14.8 gallons of hydraulic oil compared to 11.6 gallons in the MX, but the 6060 uses and circulates that oil quite differently.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I've blocked off 50% of the rad 'screen' to help get engine temp up ( same trick truckers use....)
Agree need higher RPMs and longer before 'going to work'.
Diesel like to be warm !

I cringe when I see neighbours, get in their cars, startup and out of the driveway in 1-2 minutes. It's KOLD here.......

dang Darren wonder how much pressure it takes to blow up a filter ?? Maybe the experts here can chime in ? And just HOW does it happen ?
curious...if there is a next time, could you use low pressure compressed air in then 'filler port' to 'persuade' all of the 'oil' to drain out the bottom ?
also..assuming same HST as my BX23S, was there ANYTHING in the 'screen', lower left behind the tire ?
hmm, is there some sort of 'oil filter pressure relief valve' in the HST unit ??? I'd think the 'tech' who came out should know ??
This is one mystery that HAS to be solved !!!

 

[mcmxi]

Today it was 12 degrees and I fired up the l series to push some snow and the hydraulics were not working.

Not sure if you mentioned it, but do you have a block heater in your tractor? I've always had block heaters, even the BX25, and use them all winter long. It helps with starting and warm up for sure.

I've never had or used a cover for the radiator but maybe on really cold days I'll place a blanket over the hood to help keep heat in the engine compartment generated by the block heater and also during warm up.

 

[RCW]

Low idle is not going to generate enough heat. It also is not good for cylinder walls.
I run my machine at 1100- 1200 for at least 15 minutes before I drive to my work area. In the case I'm moving snow (as recently) I'll go 20 min. I also have a sheet of Coroplast covering 1/2 the radiator/ trans cooler.

Very true, I agree. I like to start at low idle for a couple/few minutes, then up the throttle for a while to warm up when it’s real cold.

My tractor is stored in an attached garage. Gets cold out there, but typically stays above 32 degrees or so.

Don’t try to move it or operate hydraulics until it’s warmed up.

Coldest I’ve blown snow is -8 degrees F and it ran quite a while before I tried to do anything.

 

[DarrenT]

I've blocked off 50% of the rad 'screen' to help get engine temp up ( same trick truckers use....)
Agree need higher RPMs and longer before 'going to work'.
Diesel like to be warm !

I cringe when I see neighbours, get in their cars, startup and out of the driveway in 1-2 minutes. It's KOLD here.......

dang Darren wonder how much pressure it takes to blow up a filter ?? Maybe the experts here can chime in ? And just HOW does it happen ?
curious...if there is a next time, could you use low pressure compressed air in then 'filler port' to 'persuade' all of the 'oil' to drain out the bottom ?
also..assuming same HST as my BX23S, was there ANYTHING in the 'screen', lower left behind the tire ?
hmm, is there some sort of 'oil filter pressure relief valve' in the HST unit ??? I'd think the 'tech' who came out should know ??
This is one mystery that HAS to be solved !!!

Screen was cleared after the first flush. Oil is clean, but milky. This morning it was around -15C. The tractor is stored outside, but I have friends with the same tractor who have no issues in the same scenarios. The tech left scratching his head, so it's off to the dealer tomorrow for a full coat of looking at. I would say it takes a hell of a lot of pressure to do that to a filter, tore it about 3/4 the entire circumference at the crimp. Kubota reckons their oil is rated to -40C. I'm thinking something is wrong internally.

 

[Hman0217]

Not sure if you mentioned it, but do you have a block heater in your tractor? I've always had block heaters, even the BX25, and use them all winter long. It helps with starting and warm up for sure.

I've never had or used a cover for the radiator but maybe on really cold days I'll place a blanket over the hood to help keep heat in the engine compartment generated by the block heater and also during warm up.

No I dont have a block heater. The recommendation is noted