I am looking at a 2006 L3430 that has 448 hours and hasn't had any service work for over 200 hours and when I pulled the hydro dip stick it was dry. I witnessed and heard tractor run in low range and the FEL had a hard time lifting the front end in order to check for wheel wobble. Left side hydro filter started leaking as FEL was working and I told the seller I will be back when he fixes leak and fills hydro. My concern is how can I tell if the HST isn't 90% fried or can I trust it won't fail a month from now. Considering walking away since a Hydro repair is +$7000. Can someone give me their opnion about this situation? Thanks in advance. Richard
Will the HST fail?
- Thread starter BeeMan
- Start date
I have worked on alot of different hydraulic systems in the past, I can only assume that this has no smoke and mirrors to its operation and essentially just a closed loop hydraulic system.
The thing with hydraulics is the only really 2 ways to check the condition of the system. One is to sample the hydraulic fluid before its changed, which is usually done roughly with the mag plug. (which is found in the filter in some kubotas). If its got a little paste on it which is metallic should be normal wear on a system. If its a thin film and you can wipe it off relatively easily with your finger to leave a clean magnet I would say its ok. If you find splinters you have something on the way out, or chips you might want to steer well and truly clear of that machine. If you find any brass or lead on the magnet, steer clear too. That stuff is not magnetic and there must be alot floating around in the system to get stuck to something ferrous then to be drawn to the magnet. The other way to sample is to take a live sample of the system and get it analysed. It will tell you about the lead, chrome and brass that may be floating around the system. I know here we can take a pre purchased sample kit from a Caterpillar dealer for around 50 bucks and get a result in around 5 days. Also the check for water, coolant and other types of oils or abnormalities.
The other way is to do a pressure check on the system. Now ideally you just stick a gauge on a port and load up the hydraulics till they run over the system relief. Knowing the specifics of the machine helps here, as you may find that you only can get system pressure at full noise and not idle. Depending on the setup of the hydraulic system this could be a bad sign. Some hydraulic systems will be set up with a special pump that compensates for the rev of the pump to still get to system pressure, while others are only at specific rpms.
If the price is too good to walk past, It could be as simple as take someone with you (before the machine is touched again with a top up of hydraulics) and see if you can hear the pump cavitating. Its a hum, not a growl. Its like a high frequency vibration. This is bad for a pump. If it is not cavatating then check the fluid for that burnt smell. This would indicate that the level has been low enough that the hydraulics have been too hot and the previous owner has been lazy and not cheeked the level in some time.
More then likely this would mean that the seals have just a had there life span shortened and the system is still in good condition.
I would make sure that the hydraulics are only topped up at this stage, run the machine, to operating temp, take an oil sample and send it off. Do a system pressure check and check against the spec of the machine. some machines let you pull off the hydraulic filter without dumping the fluids. if you can spin it off and have a look at the magnet that would give you some idea.
With any machine its a gamble I suppose, I mean knowing this you could easily fool the results knowing how it all works.
Hopefully some other owners can pass on there wisdom in regard to the specific machine and kubota hydraulic systems!
good luck.
The thing with hydraulics is the only really 2 ways to check the condition of the system. One is to sample the hydraulic fluid before its changed, which is usually done roughly with the mag plug. (which is found in the filter in some kubotas). If its got a little paste on it which is metallic should be normal wear on a system. If its a thin film and you can wipe it off relatively easily with your finger to leave a clean magnet I would say its ok. If you find splinters you have something on the way out, or chips you might want to steer well and truly clear of that machine. If you find any brass or lead on the magnet, steer clear too. That stuff is not magnetic and there must be alot floating around in the system to get stuck to something ferrous then to be drawn to the magnet. The other way to sample is to take a live sample of the system and get it analysed. It will tell you about the lead, chrome and brass that may be floating around the system. I know here we can take a pre purchased sample kit from a Caterpillar dealer for around 50 bucks and get a result in around 5 days. Also the check for water, coolant and other types of oils or abnormalities.
The other way is to do a pressure check on the system. Now ideally you just stick a gauge on a port and load up the hydraulics till they run over the system relief. Knowing the specifics of the machine helps here, as you may find that you only can get system pressure at full noise and not idle. Depending on the setup of the hydraulic system this could be a bad sign. Some hydraulic systems will be set up with a special pump that compensates for the rev of the pump to still get to system pressure, while others are only at specific rpms.
If the price is too good to walk past, It could be as simple as take someone with you (before the machine is touched again with a top up of hydraulics) and see if you can hear the pump cavitating. Its a hum, not a growl. Its like a high frequency vibration. This is bad for a pump. If it is not cavatating then check the fluid for that burnt smell. This would indicate that the level has been low enough that the hydraulics have been too hot and the previous owner has been lazy and not cheeked the level in some time.
More then likely this would mean that the seals have just a had there life span shortened and the system is still in good condition.
I would make sure that the hydraulics are only topped up at this stage, run the machine, to operating temp, take an oil sample and send it off. Do a system pressure check and check against the spec of the machine. some machines let you pull off the hydraulic filter without dumping the fluids. if you can spin it off and have a look at the magnet that would give you some idea.
With any machine its a gamble I suppose, I mean knowing this you could easily fool the results knowing how it all works.
Hopefully some other owners can pass on there wisdom in regard to the specific machine and kubota hydraulic systems!
good luck.
Thanks for the quick return Manofaus. The left side trans filter was changed the next day and 5 gallons of Kubota fluid added to bring it up to the proper stick level. Unfortunately I could not be there and I asked the owner to save the filter and what ever fluid was captured. Not sure if that request will be honored. I will be looking at it in another day. Sure wish I had your knowledge when the issue unfolded in front of me. I could of been more sensitive to the cavitation noise and smelled the fluid. I would have made it a point of being there when the filter was removed and could of followed through on your suggestion. Hopefully the fluid and filter are still available. I don't believe the owner is intentionally trying to decieve me. I believe he just doens't know much. There wasn't an owners manual available and he didn't know where any of the dipsticks were to check anything when the leak started. In 24 hours I just learned more about Kubotas and HSTs than I ever knew before my search. Is there any functional tests that would give me a clue since it has already been topped off and run according to the owners return call? He called a friend that actually knew about the Kabotas and what needed to be done.The pricing is darn good and he has many people waiting to see it if I don't buy it and is honoring my first right of refusal. I know he won't want to wait for an oil analysis. Other buyers, unfortunately, will not know what happened and will jump on it at the current asking price. The tough part is that after this incident I will be negotiating a new price which will really be hard to walk away from. After your great info, if I can't see the old filter or oil sample I may have to walk which will really be tough to do. I started falling in love with the tractor when I first saw it which really complicates matters. Richard
The tractor is probably fine, but I'd pass on a used machine with low fluid and leaks.
I prefer gear drive anyway, so it'd be easy for me to walk away...
I prefer gear drive anyway, so it'd be easy for me to walk away...
The Kubota HST's are robust, and like with autos in trucks, there are many more hydro's out there than manual transmission tractors. Not trying to start an argument about hydro vs. manual, just pointing out that there are a LOT of hydros, and they function well. That being said, any transmission should be suspect if it has been neglected and abused. Outside of a teardown, only time would tell whether this particular hydro is in excellent shape or not. As hard as money is to come by, and as many used tractors as there are out there for sale, I would pass on it, unless the price is so rediculously low that it would be worth the risk. I think it will be a big risk, though.
"There wasn't an owners manual available and he didn't know where any of the dipsticks were to check anything when the leak...."
This single sttement is enough for me to walk, erhh run away. If that calous owner could not care to spend a miserable little $25 or so for a owners manual, there is NO WAY that he was willing to spend any money on upkeep either.
Or, if you really have to have that tractor, tell that if he pays for a dissasembly and internal inspection on the HST to verify physicaly that there is no damage, you wil pay him his money. OR is that is unacceptable to him/you I would suggest pricing out a new HST and subtracting that from the the sales price.
My thoughts. Harsh or not, there is absolutly no reason why if the guy did not know how to check that he should not have taken the inexpensive steps to find out the needed knowledge. And you, or someone else should not have to pay for his stupidity / ignorance.
David
This single sttement is enough for me to walk, erhh run away. If that calous owner could not care to spend a miserable little $25 or so for a owners manual, there is NO WAY that he was willing to spend any money on upkeep either.
Or, if you really have to have that tractor, tell that if he pays for a dissasembly and internal inspection on the HST to verify physicaly that there is no damage, you wil pay him his money. OR is that is unacceptable to him/you I would suggest pricing out a new HST and subtracting that from the the sales price.
My thoughts. Harsh or not, there is absolutly no reason why if the guy did not know how to check that he should not have taken the inexpensive steps to find out the needed knowledge. And you, or someone else should not have to pay for his stupidity / ignorance.
David
It's for sale and in the end your buying it as is. If there are several more buyers behind you I doubt you will be able to negotiate much. I seriously doubt the seller will come down much or agree to any outrageous demands. Make an offer of your top dollar you want to spend on the tractor, give him your number and walk away. If he calls you back you got a steal of a deal that's worth fixing if need be. If not it's someone else's problem.
kubotasam
Well-known member
Equipment
B2410, B7100dt, B7500,Woods BH750,Landpride 2660RFM, Tiller, B2781 Snowblower
Unless they are basically giving the tractor away I would not go any where near it. Hydros cost big bucks to repair. There are lots of tractors for sale, why risk your $$.
