Tips for Boxblading Steep Ground

[1coolbanana]

Looking for info, pointers and any tips please
No trouble finding help relating to flat ground but cant find anything on working a box blade on steep curves

Its been eroding away and neglected for years prior to me moving in, the ground has large boulders just below surface and Im really struggling making any headway to get it smooth of even.
I just keep messing it up (and thought I was going to roll over a couple times so I must be just doing it wrong)!

Ive just had 5 ton of recycled asphalt delivered (what they recommended as most durable on a slope) and will give that a go but I just dont know the technique, like is it best to box blade up or down?
Should I level it up a bit with a rake first, how to evenly spread, how to pack it down etc etc....I dont have a clue!

Ive stupidly dumped some gravel and dirt but thats just made it worse.

This is the main problem area Im talking about which Ive since raked by hand but would like to apply the recycled asphalt too.
Basically all I have is the box blade.

Any tips, much appreciated

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Is the Recycled asphalt at the top of the hill? Hope so.
You have a loader start at the top and dump and then drag it down, But wet it down with a hose as you pulling down to get it to pack down.
Oh hills like that it's almost better to use landscape or geo cloth as a base then overfill with gravel.
If you can get lime, you can mix that in the gravel to get it to compact better.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

A slope like that its safer to grade it out up and down and not sideways which causes the pucker factor thinking your about to roll over. Asphalt milling's would NOT have been my first choice or even a though to use. Gets too messy in the summer months with the heat on it, walking on it with shoes it sticks to your feet and also driving on it will fling crap on the underside of the vehicle.

I would have gone with a medium size gravel stone as a base then reduce the stone size a little smaller and fill in between the medium stones. Basically interlock the stones to hold it all in place.

 

[1coolbanana]

Is the Recycled asphalt at the top of the hill? Hope so.
You have a loader start at the top and dump and then drag it down, But wet it down with a hose as you pulling down to get it to pack down.
Oh hills like that it's almost better to use landscape or geo cloth as a base then overfill with gravel.
If you can get lime, you can mix that in the gravel to get it to compact better.

Yes its at the top
Ill have to look up what geo cloth is

A slope like that its safer to grade it out up and down and not sideways which causes the pucker factor thinking your about to roll over. Asphalt milling's would NOT have been my first choice or even a though to use. Gets too messy in the summer months with the heat on it, walking on it with shoes it sticks to your feet and also driving on it will fling crap on the underside of the vehicle.

I would have gone with a medium size gravel stone as a base then reduce the stone size a little smaller and fill in between the medium stones. Basically interlock the stones to hold it all in place.

I have been grading up and down but it was much worse than this and the erosion combined with going around the corner had the pucker effect going on a few occasions, mind you, that probably had a lot to do with my inexperience
Ive filled most of the deep ruts so its not so bad but Im just not getting it anywhere near as nice as Id like.

Although the landscape place wasnt very helpful, they said this would erode the least compared to anything like gravel or crushed stone which was their second recommendation.
The recycled asphalt seems to be mixed with roadbase so Im hoping it wont be too bad or sticky and the trail is mostly for walking on, the tractor and hopefully the zero turn.
Wont ever be much traffic.
The pile sat in the sun all day yesterday in 38 C heat and did not seem sticky

Maybe I should get some gravel at least as a base layer then???

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Maybe I should get some gravel at least as a base layer then???

If you were to do anything else, you would want to do bigger crushed stone under the recycled gravel to get the stone to bite in, but considering the hill is already rocky you should be fine.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Might need to dig 3 horizontal trenches along the slop and channel the water run off with corrugated pipe. Start near the top by the crown of the hill and run perforated corrugated pipe across the driveway starting from the left and run it to the right side and all the way down to the bottom, and repete it again in the middle and maybe again at the bottom.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_24139-124-0...=1&currentURL=?Ntt=corrugated+pipe&facetInfo=

 

[1coolbanana]

Unfortunately its not really an option as there is too much solid sandstone in many spots just below surface to do that
Tried using some of the recycled asphalt today and my biggest problem at the moment is the ag tyres chopping it up instead of compacting it down.
I think this might be a fail

Im not even sure if this is recycled asphalt, its more like black dirt mixed with like a road base type material.
I have my doubts whether its going to be any good at all.
Im not sure using the blade will help??

 

[TripleR]

It is really hard to do and kind of scary on a small tractor, we had to use a bigger one. On slopes similar to that we have started with dirt then 2"-6" minus then topped, depending on the slope with 1" minus.

We haven't used the geo cloth, but certainly will consider it if we do it again.

 

[cerlawson]

Of the geo fabrics do not use the non-woven stuff, since it stretches too much. Only the woven stuff should be used for reinforcing a layered pavement.

I'd give the material a test first, not on the slope, and see if it can be compacted so that it is erosion resistant. If not, then treat it as any other road base material. I would assume it is recommended due to the asphalt as a binder. Also it is not likely to be "sticky" as some have commented.

As to wetting the mix, I would not do that if it has any visible asphalt that then you would want as a binder. For real dry material, then water added does help with the compaction of non-asphalt mixes..

I'd try to spread the stuff out and roll each layer by driving up and down the slope with as heavy a vehicle as possible, many passes. Then, if a geo fabric is used, place that between competent layers, such as your old gravel below and better stuff above.

Don't try to compact only one thick layer if you can arrange that. Use at least two layers.

Sloping to the side to divert rain water will help, if you can.

Supposing the material does not really have any asphalt binder. One way to stabilize well graded gravel is to keep it moist the year around, since the water in the mix tends to do some binding effect. To keep it moist, traditionally on rural roads, one way is to mix in salt (sodium chloride). Salt attracts water. Another material is calcium chloride. Of course this mix also needs to be well compacted. Your mixing is best done with a roto-tiller in thin lifts. Do test areas first to develop the ratios needed.

My background is a civil engineer specializing in construction materials.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If I'm understanding this right, it sounds like your dealing with the preverbal polish roller skate, or the ball bearing and hard surface effect!
Anything you put on it just makes it even more unstable.

Well here is a couple examples of ways to fix it. Unless you have some excellent connections getting dynamite is probably out of the question so we'll move on past that one.

You need to get something to bind to the surface and keep it from just moving around.
Use geo fabric (Heavy Woven Type, not the thin sheet type) and run it from the top to the bottom of the hill and pin it in place ( stakes in the soft stuff and drill and anchor in the stone areas). Cover with crushed stone and sand then cover with a second layer and use cover material to finish it off. The down sides to this is it's a lot of work and doing it on the curve and slope that you have is extremely difficult.
If it were mine this is how I would tackle it. At the top and bottom of the hill dig down 6" or more to create a recess (ditch) as wide as the road or a little wider, then using heavy field fencing, cover the hill from the top recess pining it down at top and working it down the hill, pinning as you go, if it's stone, use a rotary drill and concrete anchors to keep the wire in place. Use 4" corrugated drain pipe to create ripples in the surface of the wire about every 2 to 4 feet, make them point down the hill at a very slight angle to drain. Using the pipe under the wire allows the cover stone to intermesh with the wire and completely bind, do this down the hill till the bottom recess. Fill top and bottom recesses with larger crushed stone or rocks or better yet concrete, cover hill and wire with 1" to 2" size of crushed stone. you can cover that with geo fabric but you probably won't need to as the pipes that are imbedded will keep it drained, then cover that with your asphalt mix.

 

[1coolbanana]

Thanks for all the input guys.

Holy moly........ this all sounds awfully complicated (and expensive) for a gumby like me whos never done this stuff before

I was just hoping to dump something on top and run the box blade over the top a few times, job done...... not so, how wrong can you be .......... DOH!
Will have to regroup my thoughts and think about all this stuff and see what the costs are versus the practicality.
I was hoping to make it nice but in reality I only want to get the tractor, and smooth enough to get ride on down there, and my 4WD has no trouble getting down there regardless.

Thinking, thinking

 

[1coolbanana]

It is really hard to do and kind of scary on a small tractor, we had to use a bigger one. On slopes similar to that we have started with dirt then 2"-6" minus then topped, depending on the slope with 1" minus.

Excuse my newbiness but I dont know what that means

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Excuse my newbiness but I dont know what that means

Let me see if I can interpret in Aussie , and TripleR'ssuggestion is a very good one to.
Doing this is better done with a much larger tractor.
Cover the hill with a good cover of dirt, then top that with 2" to 6" crushed stone and minus (minus being fines).
Then put your topping over that.
The reason it's better to do with a larger tractor is that with a small tractor it's hard to get good compaction and also stability.

 

[1coolbanana]

Apologies in advance
Ok, Im getting it, but what are fines?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The fines just fill in the gaps left from the large rock, it does stabilize the rock too. Given what your using for topping that would work as your fines.

 

[Lil Foot]

I'd loan you my tow behind 920lb roller to compact it when you're done, but you're a pretty fair piece down the road from me.

 

[1coolbanana]

Thanks mate
Ill be around in the mornin

 

[1coolbanana]

Thanks for all the input guys.
Ok, I started giving it a go with my simplistic approach with the materials at hand.
Raked (by hand) all the loose stuff off until I exposed some of the solid rock.
Dumped some fresh course gravel on top, raked it kinda smooth (by hand!) packed it down driving my truck over it 473 times.
Finally dumped 5 ton of recycled asphalt and smoothed it out (again by hand )
Packed it down with the truck again. So much for my box blade!
Its a bit lumpy but the best I can do at the moment.
Lame, I know, but its first attempt

I need a lie down, Im knackered!

Should I dump another 5 ton and do it again

Wonder how long it will last, Im betting probably not too long with the ag tyres ripping it up, part of the learning curve I suppose
Havent been game to drive the tractor down and ruin it yet, maybe Ill be surprised?

Now

Couple days ago

 

[cerlawson]

Wolfman is on a good track there, but complicated.

I have a slope about like you show that continually was a problem eroding. I finally bit the bullet and paved it with asphaltic concrete (locally called blacktop here). I used two lifts totaling about 4.5 inches thick. That finally did it. My slope was about 40%, that being a 4 foot rise in 10 feet, with shorter slope sections even steeper. Paving was not easy.

If you go to Portland Cement concrete, be aware that the rigid slabs will bridge over erodible stuff and, under some circumstances, the support can be eroded from under and the slabs tilt in all directions or worse.

Back on using what material you have, there is another treatment in the States on rural roads. They roto-till in an asphalt that has been treated with water to form an asphalt-emulsion. That mix is done cold and after the water evaporates, it is cheaper form of gravel stabilization with asphalt. Commonly used in the states for filling pot holes in winter. Check with your rural road highway department. They may even give some tips.

 

[1coolbanana]

Hey cerlawson, thanks for the tips, Ill make a few phone calls and see if they are willing to give some advice.
So far its been not forthcoming from the suppliers around here.
Cheers