M9000, M105X debate

[SidecarFlip]

As I understand it. the PTO clutch pack is actuated (clamping force) by the steering hydraulic pump so it's a separate hydraulic system. Travelling speeds (tractor movement) is all mechanical not hydraulic. Sounds like you have a shifter fork issue or the pack isn't being energized hydraulically which points to the modulation valve.

I have to ask (in as much as I have an M9,) how did you break the circlip in the first place?

 

[Tx Jim]

Re: M9540 Shuttle Clutch Pack

As I understand it. the PTO clutch pack is actuated (clamping force) by the steering hydraulic pump so it's a separate hydraulic system. Travelling speeds (tractor movement) is all mechanical not hydraulic. Sounds like you have a shifter fork issue or the pack isn't being energized hydraulically which points to the modulation valve.

I have to ask (in as much as I have an M9,) how did you break the circlip in the first place?

IIRC the pto clutch is powered by hyd circuit not power steering circuit. Hyd pump also supplies hyd oil to the hyd reverser(if tractor is equipped with that option) so tractor movement depends on hyd pressure.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Re: M9540 Shuttle Clutch Pack

Could be. I know the PTO clutch pack's clamping pressure is supplied by the same pump section that supplies the steering unit via a modulation valve...

.The oil from the steering controller flows into the PTO clutch valve. When the PTO is at the disengaged position, the oil flows is stopped by the PTO clutch valve (1). When the PTO is at the engaged position, the oil flows through the PTO clutch valve (1) to the modulating valve (4) and PTO clutch pack (2) to engage it.

From my shop manual...

 

[Tx Jim]

Re: M9540 Shuttle Clutch Pack

The power steering schematic in my M7040 WSM doesn't mention pto clutch or hyd shuttle but does show separate pump(key B) for 3 pt. Maybe higher HP tractors are different from my M7040

 

[SidecarFlip]

Re: M9540 Shuttle Clutch Pack

Could be. His M is the same vintage mine is (early 2000) and my WSM clearly shows the hydraulic actuation pressure is derived from the pump section that provides pressure for the steering. Only thing is, there are 2 pump styles used, twin seperate pumps mated together and a single multi use pump (3 point and steering with clutch pack actuation, just like my quoted from my WSM states. Engagement is via cable to the modulation valve which is on the side of the transmission case.

Far as I know, there was never a power reverser offered on that tractor either. They are hydraulic shuttle, no dry clutch. A similar to the PTO pack transmits power in forward or reverse which is what I have. Model designation is M9000HDCC3. HD is hydraulic shuttle and CC3 is the factory installed creep gears.

Don't think your 7040 existed when my M9 was purchased.

 

[Tx Jim]

Re: M9540 Shuttle Clutch Pack

Far as I know, there was never a power reverser offered on that tractor either. They are hydraulic shuttle, no dry clutch. A similar to the PTO pack transmits power in forward or reverse which is what I have. Model designation is M9000HDCC3. HD is hydraulic shuttle and CC3 is the factory installed creep gears.

Don't think your 7040 existed when my M9 was purchased.

I think you're correct that my '11 M7040 is newer than your M9000. Tractordata shows M9540 built from '06-'13. Don't know for sure but I'll bet the hyd system including pto & hyd shuttle(reverser) on OP's M9540 .is closer to resembling my M7040 than your M9000. M9540 with hyd shuttle & my M7040 has a DRY damper clutch disk. M9540 & my M7040 both have a double section hyd pump. FYI a M9000 with hyd shuttle has a DRY damper clutch disk similar to M9540 & M7040.
Have a nice day,Jim

 

[SidecarFlip]

Re: M9540 Shuttle Clutch Pack

My M9 and my 105 have no dry damper clutch whatsoever. (to the best of my knowledge) Both have full hydraulic packs, no dry anything. The 'clutch' pedal acts on a modulating valve that controls the wet pack and modulates to provide smooth engagement. The modulating valve is load sensitive, that is as the load increase, the valve 'senses' that and adjusts the lock up pressure applied to the pack as well as the engagement time. It works very well doing it's intended job.

I guess you could call it a 'power reverser' as it can go from any forward travelling gear to reverse traveling gear instantly. Great for loader work and spotting round bales in the field.

Why I bought them. I don't want any dry clutch in a large frame tractor because of the finite life expectancy and the built in cost of eventual replacement.

I always stand corrected but there is no mention of any 'damper' in my WSM on either.

They re expensive enough without the added down the road cost of a clutch job.

As close to a HST unit as I want to get without the parasitic loss and excess heat associated with the HST design.

I plan on keeping both until I no longer need to farm, which may be sooner or later depending on my circumstances.

 

[Tx Jim]

Re: M9540 Shuttle Clutch Pack

May I ask what you refer to this type dry clutch that your M105X show in parts catalog? Your M9000 has a similar dry damper clutch

 

[Tx Jim]

Re: M9540 Shuttle Clutch Pack

Here's another model of M105 with a dry damper clutch. Ask your local Kubota dealer if you still think I'm not correct in stating both your tractors have a dry damper clutch.

 

[SidecarFlip]

You could be correct, not sure but I'll ask next time I'm there. Could be there to mitigate shock load sort of like a PTO implement slip clutch.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

It's a shock load plate for the whole drive system.

It's really not a clutch because it can not slip, it bolted to the flywheel and splined to the drive system.

 

[Tx Jim]

It's a shock load plate for the whole drive system.

It's really not a clutch because it can not slip, it bolted to the flywheel and splined to the drive system.

Now that you stated it wasn't actually a clutch I remembered there was no pressure plate in the parts schematic. My neighbors JD with a similar arrangement had to be split & damper disk replaced because all the springs in center hub failed allowing hub to spin in disk.
Thanks,Jim

 

[seineil56k]

As I understand it. the PTO clutch pack is actuated (clamping force) by the steering hydraulic pump so it's a separate hydraulic system. Travelling speeds (tractor movement) is all mechanical not hydraulic. Sounds like you have a shifter fork issue or the pack isn't being energized hydraulically which points to the modulation valve.

I have to ask (in as much as I have an M9,) how did you break the circlip in the first place?

can you point me to the modulation valve can't find anything in the manual about this piece of hardware.

We were harrowing about 50 acres of grassland. Hydraulic fluid was low from a slow leak eventually overheating the clutch and snapping out the c-clip. Originally there was a rattling sound which we realize was the c-clip. They definitely should have some type of simple hydraulic fluid sensor I don't feel it would take much for Kubota to build this in.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

can you point me to the modulation valve can't find anything in the manual about this piece of hardware.

We were harrowing about 50 acres of grassland. Hydraulic fluid was low from a slow leak eventually overheating the clutch and snapping out the c-clip. Originally there was a rattling sound which we realize was the c-clip. They definitely should have some type of simple hydraulic fluid sensor I don't feel it would take much for Kubota to build this in.

The reason I moved these posts off of your thread is because they are not relevant to your problem, you don't have the same system as the other tractors noted.