I installed a Summit Engineering Third Function Kit on my 2021 L2501 HST. I must have installed something in correctly as now I have no power steering. All other hydraulics including third function control work fine. Steering is extremely difficult unless tractor is moving or all weight is off front end. I tried to double check the hose connections but the identification on the ports are confusing and do not correspond directly to the instructions that came from Summit. My dealer has offered to take a look at it but that means trailering the tractor 60 miles.
lost power steering with added 3rd function kit
- Thread starter miltonbland
- Start date
Old Machinist
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Kubota LX3310 cab, JD 4310, NH 575E cab backhoe, JD F725, Swisher 60", etc.
TheOldHokie
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Hard to screw that up. There are only two hoses:
You completly remove the loader power beyond hose. Thats the upper left hose on the outlet block below the right floorboard - port C in this diagram.
You then connect the power beyond port on the loader valve to the IN port on the 3rd functiom valve using the new hose that comes with the kit.
Lastly you connect the T port on the 3rd function valve to the upper left port (C) on the hydraulic outlet block using the new hose that comes wiith the kit.
EZ-PZ
Dan
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TheOldHokie
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I think not. I dont have a WSM for the L2501 but the L3301 and L3901 have tandem pumps - one section for PS and one for loader/3pt. PS has nothing to do with the outlet block.
Edit: L2501 parts book looks like the others.
Dan
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I have ordered a shop manual. In the meantime I have looked at a lot of videos and posts. The tractor is low hours and never used in a dirty environment. So I am skeptical that the pump is the problem but it is possible.
TheOldHokie
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I am not suggesting the pump is your problem.
What I dont understand is how installing the third function can affect steering on that tractor. AFAIK they are two separate systems with nothing in common. You say the loader with new 3rd function and 3pt work fine. This isnt adding up.
Dan
As Dan has said, the hydraulics for the steering is a separate section of the hydraulic pump. This is an image from the L2501 Workshop Manual:
8 = Hydraulic pump
9 = Delivery pipe
10 = Return Hose (manual) HST Delivery Pipe (HST)
8 = Hydraulic pump
9 = Delivery pipe
10 = Return Hose (manual) HST Delivery Pipe (HST)
TheOldHokie
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Thank you! I could not find anything that definitive in the parts manuals.
I think there must be more to this story than just the third function installation. That appears to be working just fine.
Dan
I appreciate all the help. I agree the situation just doesn’t seem to add up. I think I will remove the third function valve from the circuit and see if that changes anything . That shouldn’t make a difference but it won’t hurt anything.
TheOldHokie
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I was goung to suggest that. Take some puctures of what you change if/when you do it.
Dan
t
UGH! I had my response all prepared but inadvertently deleted it when trying to attach a video. Apparently the file is too large so I will just stick wit a description of today's events.
I removed the third function valve from the hydraulic circuit. Started the tractor and for a split second had power steering. Then no power steering. Shut the tractor off a nd re-started. Same results, power steering for an instant, turned the front wheels maybe 20 degrees than back to manual steering. However, I did notice that if I gently turned the wheel, not forcing it, there was a bit of assistance in the steering.
I re-installed the third function valve. On initial engine start I had momentary power steering. I worked the hydraulics in case there was air in the system but that made no difference. It made no difference with engine rpm, with tractor parked but running, there was some help from the power steering but extremely slow. Turned the engine off, waited a few seconds, re-started and immediately had power steering for a very limited time, maybe half a second. Front wheels turned a few degrees with power then they could be turned manually with difficulty or very slowly with power.
It is as if there is not enough hydraulic fluid reaching the power steering pump. The tractor has only 39 hours on it and never been in a dirty environment so I would not normally suspect a dirty hydraulic filter, but I think I will change it anyway.
One other thing. I doubt if it is relevant, but when I installed the third function valve I increased the hydraulic pressure by adding 3 shims to the regulator. They are Kubota shims, raised the pressure from 2400 to 2600 psi.
UGH! I had my response all prepared but inadvertently deleted it when trying to attach a video. Apparently the file is too large so I will just stick wit a description of today's events.
I removed the third function valve from the hydraulic circuit. Started the tractor and for a split second had power steering. Then no power steering. Shut the tractor off a nd re-started. Same results, power steering for an instant, turned the front wheels maybe 20 degrees than back to manual steering. However, I did notice that if I gently turned the wheel, not forcing it, there was a bit of assistance in the steering.
I re-installed the third function valve. On initial engine start I had momentary power steering. I worked the hydraulics in case there was air in the system but that made no difference. It made no difference with engine rpm, with tractor parked but running, there was some help from the power steering but extremely slow. Turned the engine off, waited a few seconds, re-started and immediately had power steering for a very limited time, maybe half a second. Front wheels turned a few degrees with power then they could be turned manually with difficulty or very slowly with power.
It is as if there is not enough hydraulic fluid reaching the power steering pump. The tractor has only 39 hours on it and never been in a dirty environment so I would not normally suspect a dirty hydraulic filter, but I think I will change it anyway.
One other thing. I doubt if it is relevant, but when I installed the third function valve I increased the hydraulic pressure by adding 3 shims to the regulator. They are Kubota shims, raised the pressure from 2400 to 2600 psi.
TheOldHokie
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One more time. Your power steering has nothing to do with the loader circuit. It has its own pump which shares the supply with the implenent pump. Same filter so that is not causing your problem.
You need to forget about but the third function and turn your attention to the PS circuit. I expect your WSM will have the same trouble shooting processes as the WSM for the L3301 and L3701.
Dan
Are you certain about the filter? The diagram on the WSM page 8-M2 shows the power steering pump (2) discharging to the steering control valve(8) then to the Hydraulic Oil Filter (HST) (10). That is a separate filter from the Hydraulic Oil Filter (7) on the incoming side of the tandem pump.
TheOldHokie
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I am certain thst the supply to the PS pump comes through the same pipe and inlet filter used by the implement pump. If the implement pump is working that supply is not the problem.
Typically the discharge from the PS pump first goes to the PS controller and the return from the controller is then sent to the HST where it also serves as the charge pump. If the HST iz working that leads me to believe that flow is aldo intact.
Rather than guess follow the diagnostics in the WSM
Dan
Dan, your final comment is not in the spirit of being helpful. Unfortunately the WSM does not give detailed diagnostics for my problem as you suggest. It does have a troubleshooting page that list "hard steering" as one symptom and also "steering force fluctuate" another symptom. Neither of these appear to be consistent with the problem my tractor is experiencing. My hope in making the post on this forum was that possible someone else had a similar experience and I could learn from their reply.
I did check all the hose fittings on the power steering circuit and they are tight. I would like to check the pressure on that circuit but I need the special "tool" to hook up my pressure gauge. . The WSM list a part number but none of the Kubota websites seem to identify it.
I did check all the hose fittings on the power steering circuit and they are tight. I would like to check the pressure on that circuit but I need the special "tool" to hook up my pressure gauge. . The WSM list a part number but none of the Kubota websites seem to identify it.
TheOldHokie
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My comment is in the spirit of this guessing and over analysis is getting old. I am trying to help you but you are not cooperating.
What you have described is most definitly both "hard steering" and "steering force fluctuates".
Dab
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I think you need to give us a picture of where you installed the shims to increase the pressure.
And give us pictures of the Third function piping.
Have you tried moving the tractor?
Have you tired the three point?
If you want us to see a video, you need to post the video on youtube and give us a link to see it.
And give us pictures of the Third function piping.
Have you tried moving the tractor?
Have you tired the three point?
If you want us to see a video, you need to post the video on youtube and give us a link to see it.