Juan Deere

Daren Todd

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
Massey Ferguson 1825E, Kubota Z121S, Box blade, Rotary Cutter
May 18, 2014
9,421
5,184
113
Vilonia, Arkansas
I think the high prices are caused by buyers wanting 0% interest and payments. That hurts us paying cash in the end. The LX2620 cab I priced was over 35k with nothing else. Plus it is so complex it takes a computer program to debug and reset things should there be any problems at $200 an hour. Their warranty is only as good as the local rep and ours is not good I recently found out.
I priced out the same tractor that was selling in 2018 for $18,000 with 20ft trailer rotary cutter, and box blade. I could see going up some in 6 years, but not $14,000. And that's not including the trailer.

Both deere and kubota have gone from mom and pop stores to large conglomerates in my area.

You get the attitude, price increase and piss poor service.

I can speak from first hand experience. Deere needs to get a better manufacturer for their after treatment sensors.

Just about every Deere powered tier 4 units I've gotten shipped in have had faulty sensors.

I've gotten to the point that I cringe if I see a deere engine on it. They run great, but my service calls triple until we get the bugs worked out of them.
 
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Sidekick

Active member

Equipment
RTV-X, BX3260, Z726XKW-3-60, Deere 4100
Jul 29, 2023
270
210
43
N.Y,
I priced out the same tractor that was selling in 2018 for $18,000 with 20ft trailer rotary cutter, and box blade. I could see going up some in 6 years, but not $14,000. And that's not including the trailer.

Both deere and kubota have gone from mom and pop stores to large conglomerates in my area.

You get the attitude, price increase and piss poor service.

I can speak from first hand experience. Deere needs to get a better manufacturer for their after treatment sensors.

Just about every Deere powered tier 4 units I've gotten shipped in have had faulty sensors.

I've gotten to the point that I cringe if I see a deere engine on it. They run great, but my service calls triple until we get the bugs worked out of them.
Up here what keeps Deere selling million dollar machines is the government subsidiaries. Every year you see many new million dollar tractors in the fields after the big farmers get their subsidiary checks from the government. Mostly big farmers now that rent the land from smaller farmers that have given up farming. Now we also have a lot of Amish farmers that buy their equipment from the auctions and snap up small struggling farms. Taxpayers finance many big Deeres.
 

lugbolt

Well-known member

Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
4,984
1,708
113
Mid, South, USA
Deere started the process of this a LONG time ago. I was a dealer, saw a lot of things happen. I started in 1992.

In the late 90's Deere saw that they were 'missing out' on sales of 'cheap' (affordable....) lawn mowers. What deere had at the time was a steady growth rate, which was mostly ag products but t chunk of it was C&CE (consumer and commercial equipment-aka lawn mowers). The C&CE stuff that they had was good quality. Very good actually. I remember the LX series mowers well, sold thousands of them and worked on probably just as many all the way past the day we ditched JD. I think the last one rolled through the shop in 2018. It was THOSE customers who left a huge impression on me! They kept coming back year after year, even when we had to get deere service and repair parts from the dealer at MSRP, and then marked it up 15% to cover our costs. They knew it but they trusted our little shop and the folks that worked there. That part I miss, and that's about the only thing I miss about working at that dealer. And the old (original) boss...and their family. Great folks.

Anyway in about 98 or thereabouts Deere saw opportunity to sell cheap mowers. They had the STX30 and STX38 riders which were decently built cheap mowers, but they bought the Scotts and Sabre lines. Scotts and Sabre were the predecessors to the L series, the L102, L110, L118, etc. These were cheaply built and lesser quality than the STX series that they "replaced". The old Kohler Command single on the STX series was gone in "favor" of the cheap briggs & scrapiron. Deere has so much buying power that they dictate what they are going to pay Briggs for those engines, so Briggs said ok if you want it cheaper, we'll make it cheaper...and sent operations for a lot of castings and forgings to CHINA. Gotta love that cheap labor. Then not long aftre the Scotts and Sabre and the beginning of the L series was being sold at Home Depot and Lowes. The dealers were forced to work on them (contracted actually) even though they didn't sell them. So what was the reason for the dealers to exist if they aren't gonna be able to compete with Lowes? Well, the big box stores and the dealer and JD had an agreement that neither could sell the mowers at anything less than MSRP. The price was the price, period. Millions of folks flocked to the big box stores to buy these piles of steaming feces, and millions of them took them back to the same stores with problems if they had any. The big box stores don't work on anything, so they'd direct you to the contracted dealership, which may have been 40-50-60 or however miles away. "We" (the deere dealer at the time) didn't want anything to do with this massive mistake, but deere was seeing cubic dollar signs. Over time people started getting wind of what was happening and people realized that Deere is going after the mass market more than they were helping the smaler dealerships (like the one I was at). But the cheap garbage they were turning out & selling at the big box stores was selling like hotcakes while the dealers-who used to sell thousands of STX38's and LX172's-were hung out to dry. Especially the smaller dealers since their bread and butter was, lawn mower sales and service. Like the one I was at.

In 2004 we told Deere to come get their junk and take it to the big dealer down south. In under a month we were green-free except a bunch of parts, which slowly depleted over time as we still had a lot of great customers who preferred us to work on their stuff rather than the big corporate dealer chain. And I don't blame them! We were then focused on Kubota from that point on. But, with that said, our good customers who had green equipment did not stop doing business with us. As time went on and their equipment wore out, we took them on trade and they bought orange. And they mostly loved Kubota stuff, it was comparable to Deere in quality but the support was a little better and a little more convenient (mostly...), until the chain of deere dealers opened a store 4 blocks away (which is still there-I interviewed there earlier for employment).

In the meantime big box places were selling those cheap mowers and when folks want them worked on or serviced, they had to go to the dealer, and the local dealer is kind of hard to get to (kind of a bad location) and they're corporate-and it shows in how they do business. The "mom and pop" feel of the smaller dealerships, is pretty close to being GONE, and a lof of longtime (and now older) deere customers resent that corporate atmosphere. I don't blame them, not one bit. I can't think of very many perks to shopping at a big chain store as opposed to a smaller mom-and-pop shop, and I have worked both and done business with both. These older folks are talking about this stuff, and people are getting wind of it, in this area. The deere store's sales numbers are down, of course economic conditions are part of it, but there is also the aspect of this chain having too many stores in such a small area which shoots themselves in the foot when sales numbers dip. THe overhead is still there but they depend heavily on sales numbers to keep the places going. This is a nationwide issue with deere dealers. Competition plays into it as well. In this area if you are driving somewhere, you can't help but notice all of the orange CUT's and lawn equipment, it's everywhere. If you see green ones, it's because the owners are brand loyal (for now). My neighbor belongs to that category. X320, wouldn't have anything else-even though he could cut his yard in 1/2 the time if he'd try a zero turn, and I've offered him mine to try (he won't).

Then add in labor costs, both at the dealer level AND the corporate level. Labor costs are a huge bill to pay. You've got folks in some states that think they can have entry level jobs for $30/hr, and there are a few of those here too. I tell them this: If you want $30/hr I expect to see profits-if I don't see them, you're out of here because there's about 10 other applications that I have to go through and out of those 10, I would bet 8 of them will do the same job for $20. Entitlement at it's best in some cases. In other cases it's because workers (if you call them that...) have bills, which are their own fault. You didn't "have" to knock whats-her-name up 4 times and then run around on her. You didn't "have" to take up your habits and addictions, and noone forced you to buy a $500,000 house when you could live in a $100,000 house just fine. Nor did you "have" to buy a $95,000 pickup truck and wear $400 pair of shoes. That's the stuff that causes labor costs to go up and up and up. Then on top of that you have the unions who keep saying "we want more because it costs more to live". It sure does, but ask yourself why. Labor costs go up, companies have no choice but to pass the cost on to customers, who have to pay more. The consumer always bears the brunt of cost increases every single time. THen you have a government who keeps enacting more and more and more and more and more laws, rules, regulations-which all cost a little here and there, but ya know what? If you put a penny in a jar every day, in a year, you end up with 365 pennies. It adds up. But I think a lot of people either fail to, or refuse to, understand this, and now this whole "inflation" thing is showing how expensive these regulations, laws, rules, and such cost. And labor costs! And forced insurance and mandated minimum wages. If we keep letting them, they'll just price the entire USA out of business, starting with the middle class. The rich will remain rich or get richer, the poor will remain poor. The middle class WILL disappear. But I don't think people care?? They see big numbers thrown around on TV, and leadership says "it'll only cost a penny a day". That's just justification for a price increase, among other things. People are dumb about this stuff but it ain't rocket surgery to figure out!

So with all that said, my experience with deere tells me that I am not the least bit surprised that some operations are moving to Mexico. I'm surprised it took them this long to be honest.
 
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lugbolt

Well-known member

Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
4,984
1,708
113
Mid, South, USA
I priced out the same tractor that was selling in 2018 for $18,000 with 20ft trailer rotary cutter, and box blade. I could see going up some in 6 years, but not $14,000. And that's not including the trailer.

Both deere and kubota have gone from mom and pop stores to large conglomerates in my area.

You get the attitude, price increase and piss poor service.

hence the reason I don't work for em no more. From inside the walls of the dealership, comparing to what customers saw? It was 100x worse working for them.
 
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GeoHorn

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4700DT, LA1002FEL, Ferguson5-8B Compactor-Roller, 10KDumpTrailer, RTV-X900
May 18, 2018
6,001
3,254
113
Texas
What is a 'Work Product'?

A person's own perceived worth?

That might be quickly tempered by what the hiring market will bear, though it is your privilege to see yourself as special as you like.
My “work product” is my labor or talent. Doh.
 

Flintknapper

Well-known member
Premium Member

Equipment
L2350DT
May 3, 2022
1,672
2,104
113
Deep East Texas
My “work product” is my labor or talent. Doh.
Alright, now that we have that established. You maintain it is YOUR privilege to decide how much you should be paid for such 'work product'.

Am I understanding you correctly?

IF so, when hired by someone else....what would be the point of having 'yearly reviews'? IF it YOU that is deciding what you are worth then most certainly you'll want a pay increase.

Your 'privilege' is to decide whether or not a job is right for you (monetarily and in terms of happiness and job security), not to dictate to your employer your perceived worth.

Pay increase 'negotiations' are acceptable norms. But Unions demanding pay increases without providing more output from the workers has crippled more than one company.
 

GeoHorn

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4700DT, LA1002FEL, Ferguson5-8B Compactor-Roller, 10KDumpTrailer, RTV-X900
May 18, 2018
6,001
3,254
113
Texas
Alright, now that we have that established. You maintain it is YOUR privilege to decide how much you should be paid for such 'work product'.

Am I understanding you correctly?

IF so, when hired by someone else....what would be the point of having 'yearly reviews'? IF it YOU that is deciding what you are worth then most certainly you'll want a pay increase.

Your 'privilege' is to decide whether or not a job is right for you (monetarily and in terms of happiness and job security), not to dictate to your employer your perceived worth.

Pay increase 'negotiations' are acceptable norms. But Unions demanding pay increases without providing more output from the workers has crippled more than one company.
I decide WHO I work for…and for HOW MUCH …I’ll do my work. Period!

YOU got nothing to say about it. My price is stated UP FRONT. Take it or Leave it.
I had all the work I wanted.

Here’s a funny about wages:

Ah-Nold Schwarzenegger came to the U.S. and could not support himself…when he ran into an Italian bricklayer with whom he “teamed up” to try to make a living.

They advertised in Los Angeles “Bricklayers $10/hr” …when the going-rate was $12/hr in the area.

They got no business.

They advertised “Bricklaying $8/hr”. They starved.

One day, while sitting in a hamburger-joint eating their last dollar… a marketing guy at the next table….overheard them speaking in their foreign-accents… discussing how they were broke and likely relegated to returning to the “old country”…

The marketing-guy told them, “Your Problem is…. You don’t know how to MARKET yourselves in
America!” He said he was going to help them…. and ran an Ad in the Beverly Hills newsletter:

”European Bricklaying - - Only $18 per hour!”

They were suddenly DELUGED with Work!

:ROFLMAO: :D:p:ROFLMAO:

Now, you know the “Rest of the Story” — Paul Harvey
 
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GrassLakeRon

Active member

Equipment
B8200HST-DP , RC60-82h Mower Deck, Woods RB6 Rear Blade, Homemade Carry All
Oct 27, 2023
226
136
43
Grass Lake, Michigan
What I find interesting is the whole "has to be new" or nothing folks. I do get not wanting other people's problems but with time and research you can find good things out there. The first new truck I bought I spent time looking at forums and seeing what was going wrong with that generation of truck. I then ordered one without those options. 3 years later the forums are slammed with people trying to fix those problems. People in general don't do their homework.....