IP pump failure

[rmcphearson]

Hi everyone,
Newbie here with a question. My dealer is trying to get out of a warranty repair by telling me only two things can seize an IP: gas or water. I don’t think either happened to my D1105. I think the pick up (electric) pump may have quit (a common problem with my vehicles) and the lack of fuel when the operator cranked the engine for several minutes may have damaged the pump. Your thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks,
Roland

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Hi everyone,
Newbie here with a question. My dealer is trying to get out of a warranty repair by telling me only two things can seize an IP: gas or water. I don’t think either happened to my D1105. I think the pick up (electric) pump may have quit (a common problem with my vehicles) and the lack of fuel when the operator cranked the engine for several minutes may have damaged the pump. Your thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks,
Roland

I think someone is feeding you a line.
But your going to have to give more details to get better answers.

What is the damage to the IP?
I've never seen one damaged from simply cranking an engine.

 

[whitetiger]

This style of injection pump can not pump itself dry, there should be enough fuel in it for lubrication.
As North Idaho Wolfman stated, there are a lot of details missing.

 

[lugbolt]

get a fuel sample from your RTV and send it out for analysis. If they find much water and/or gas in it, your question has been answered.

was a somewhat common issue for a few years. They aren't exactly wrong, especially water.

 

[rmcphearson]

The IP was pumping only air, no fuel. The dealer says “the pump seized and their are only two things that will cause it to seize: gas or water.”

I don’t think the IP pump ever “seized”. I think I have them on a technicality on that. If it seized then it wouldn’t be pumping air, correct? And could the engine turn over normally if the pump was seized? Yes, I’m splitting hairs here, but I have good reason to play hardball with them. More details on that later.

I’m not satisfied any gas was In the fuel. It never ran rough or smoked like the several other D1105s I’ve witnessed in years past that had a significant amount of gas in them. I’ve seen D1105s run very rough on mostly gas and smoke the whole neighborhood and never damage a IP. I didn’t smell any gas in the tank before the dealer picked this one up.

They are not going to give me a sample of the fuel. I wouldn’t trust anything they give me. I’ve caught them flat out lying to me before.

The only thing I’m confident of is that the IP failed.
Thank you for the help so far.

 

[rmcphearson]

What is the damage to the IP?

I don’t know. I hope I can get my hands on it so I can determine for myself (with help from you guys) why it failed.

 

[D2Cat]

If you don't trust the dealer get the machine back, take the IP off and send it to Oregon Fuel injection for service/rebuild. They do excellent work and very fair priced. https://oregonfuelinjection.com/

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The IP was pumping only air, no fuel. The dealer says “the pump seized and their are only two things that will cause it to seize: gas or water.”

I don’t think the IP pump ever “seized”. I think I have them on a technicality on that. If it seized then it wouldn’t be pumping air, correct? And could the engine turn over normally if the pump was seized? Yes, I’m splitting hairs here, but I have good reason to play hardball with them. More details on that later.

I’m not satisfied any gas was In the fuel. It never ran rough or smoked like the several other D1105s I’ve witnessed in years past that had a significant amount of gas in them. I’ve seen D1105s run very rough on mostly gas and smoke the whole neighborhood and never damage a IP. I didn’t smell any gas in the tank before the dealer picked this one up.

They are not going to give me a sample of the fuel. I wouldn’t trust anything they give me. I’ve caught them flat out lying to me before.

The only thing I’m confident of is that the IP failed.
Thank you for the help so far.

Little confused as Injection pumps don't really pump air.
Either they pump fuel or they don't.
If it was seized it would have to be seized with the pump or pumps collapsed.
That could happen, but super rare.
There will be physical damage to the pump if it seized.

 

[John T]

I can understand water in the fuel ... sitting for a long time creating rust ... or gunked up fuel.

Gas? why would they even mention that... It's has to be a rarity that some bonehead dumps gasoline into a diesel tractor....
personally I'd be offended if they suggested that to me.

Anyway, If you take it off yourself make sure you do some research or ask around.

Not sure what the pump is or the tractor for that matter... But most injection pumps need to be timed properly.
check to see if there is a Lock pin. If it's a quality pump shop they will make sure that pin is exactly where you set it... when it comes back.

just don't turn over the engine when the pumps out...

again... I don't know if all this will apply to your situation but worth looking into.

 

[rmcphearson]

More detail: the first symptom was that it was very hard to start in the mornings when cold. After cranking for several minutes it fired up and ran great after the engine warmed up. It would fire up again immediately when the engine was warm. This happened for several days. One morning it would not fire up, dealer tech came out and decided to haul it away.

The line “the IP seized” doesn’t make sense to me. The symptoms were intermittent. A seized IP would not cause hard starting and then decide to start working fine. That's my opinion.

They already installed a used IP. They are holding the vehicle hostage until we pay $1200. I'm trying to get my guy on the inside to get the old pump to me so I can look at it try to figure out what really happened, and also just to learn more about IPs.

Also, I noticed in my records this vehicle ran rough occasionally over the past 3 years. I made the dealer aware of it. They never figured that out.