Future Farmer...

[Eric McCarthy]

Well I'm trying something new and I'm pushing hard and advertising alot for farm and acreage work with a tractor for hire. Within an hour after listing an ad for farm work I got a phone call asking to put in 15 acres of pasture land. The land has been cleared by a dozer and now just needs to be turned over to plant.

I'm novice with something like this so I'm thinking I'd need a atleast a 50hp tractor with a two or three bottom plow and a disc. There are some smaller grub work needing to be done, saplings 3/4" to 1" in diameter. I would have thought the dozer man would have got it clean with a root rake but guess he doesn't have one.

So I ask you farm guys for advise and knowledge. The 15 acres is for goats, and the window to plant here in Virginia is getting small. I am figuring around $2000 to $3000 an acre to work the ground and plant orchard grass.

 

[IDKUBOTA]

That seems expensive. One can purchase good soil in Idaho for that price. A farmer down the road rents him and his equipment out for 70 per hour.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

The price I came up with for $2000 to $3000 an acre would be based on dirt working and seed included in that price. Figuring its going to take a few hundred dollars an acre in seed alone to plant orchard grass. The customer had a ball park idea thats what it would cost him per acre to do what he wants done.

The price isn't too far away from what it takes for me to regrade and install turf on a customers residental lawn. And grass seed alone for laws is $95.00 for a 50lb bag.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

IDKUBOTA,
You nailed it! I paid less than the for my place!

Eric,
1: If you have a customer that is willing to plunk down $30,000 to $45,000 to plant grass for goats, you have some really wacked people living in Virginia!
To do such a thing would is not logical!

2: Do you have any experience in doing that kind of work?
I worked on a farm and ranch for quite a few years and it would take several of us to just prep out a cleared field for planting, let alone clearing a field from rough to usable.
Your going to need a lot more 50HP tractor to do what you need to do, light small equipment will take forever.
Your going to need equipment large enough to rip up everything and rip out the stumps and duff.
You also will pay way too much to try and rent the kind of equipment you need.
You will also need more than yourself and a tractor, and a few implements to get it done.
It would take a large crew and big equipment at a substantial expense to get it done in any amount of reasonable time.

That's not going into the logistics of crop insurance, which you will have to have, or you can be sued if it doesn't germinate completely because of nature, weather, or other factors either in or out of your control.
You will also need liability insurance which the rental company and the property owner probably will require, and you should have to cover your financial risk in such a project.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Well after looking at orchardgrass at $104,95 a bag and needing 200 pounds an acre and about $7871.25 in orchard grass seed alone. It's an expensive project. The land has already been cleared by a dozer. So 95% of the big junk such as stumps and nasty roots are already out of the way. The dirt is fairly loose for the most part. So a plowing or disc should do the trick. I dont forsee why a 50hp wont cover it.

And the customer knows I'm not guaranteeing the success of the planting. Its not a crop raised for production purposes. It's pasture land for goats to graze on, and will also be feed by other means such as grain and hay.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

The customer didn't seem to bat and eye or freak out when I told him he'd be looking at about $2000 and acre to till and seed. He told me he had a general idea thats what he'd have to spend to get the job done, soooooo....

 

[78-79fordman]

Wow is all I got to say . Would be way cheaper for the dude to let it be and let what ever grass that grows grow . Goats like all kinds of wild grass . And as for any saplings he needs to leave them for the goats they will take them right out .


Wow $30,000 plus for goats crazy . You get that money fast before someone smoother beats u out of it . Hell I would load up right now and come up there and stay in a motel to do the job my self for that price .

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Eric,
You are wayyy off in your estimate of grass seed quantity!
18 to 20 lbs per acre!
That would only be 6 bags and at $104.95 /#50 is $629.70
Way off from your "$104,95 a bag and needing 200 pounds an acre and about $7871.25 in orchard grass"

Planting Orchardgrass For Pasture & Hay Production

Orchardgrass seed should be planted at least 60 days before the first killing frost in the fall to protect young seedlings. Early spring plantings are harder to establish.

Seeding Rate: 18 to 20 lbs per acre into a clean seedbed. Reduce this rate to 8 to 10 lbs per acre if planting with other grasses or clovers.

Seeding Dates: Spring Or Fall
Fall: At least 60 days before the 1st frost in the fall when soil temperatures are 75° and falling.
Spring: After the last killing frost when soil temperatures are 65° and rising.
Soil: Soil should have a pH of 6.5
Depth: 1/2"

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Eric,
You are wayyy off in your estimate of grass seed quantity!
18 to 20 lbs per acre!
That would only be 6 bags and at $104.95 /#50 is $629.70
Way off from your "$104,95 a bag and needing 200 pounds an acre and about $7871.25 in orchard grass"

Yeah I knew my numbers are off. I'm trying to cross over seed rate for residential lawns to acreage for farm and orchard grass. And with your numbers at 629.70 an acre TIMES 15 acres comes out to $9445.05 for just orchard grass alone.

Here is what the current plot of land looks like.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If he goes with your bid price, I'm packing my bags and headed your way, heck I'll be rich in a month or less at those rates!

I find it really hard to believe that a goat farmer is going to plunk that kind of money on something like that!
What does goat milk, goat cheese, or chevon (goat meat) go for in your parts? $100.00 a pound?

If he gives you a check for the job it's going to bounce to the moon.
And if he give you cash it's going to either be funny money or monopoly!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

629.70 an acre TIMES 15 acres comes out to $9445.05 for just orchard grass alone.

The $629.70 is for the whole 15 acres!
20lbs per acre would only be 6 bags @ 50#bags
At $104.95 /50# bag
that is $629.70 for 15 acres.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Around my neck of the woods small hobby farms are booming and people are paying big money to clear land and put in pastures for live stock. The land owners don't want to invest in equipment or take the time to do it themselves. Area farmers are too busy tending to their own land and don't have the time to hire out. So that leaves guys like me who aren't affraid to work and eager to learn, willing to take on a job like this.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

The $629.70 is for the whole 15 acres!
20lbs per acre would only be 6 bags @ 50#bags
At $104.95 /50# bag
that is $629.70 for 15 acres.

It's almost 2:30am on the east side. I'm not really focused at the moment. Again my train of thought is still residential lawns and the rate of grass seed for new lawns or over seeding for established lawns. It takes 50lbs per 5000sqft new seeding and 10,000 per 50lbs over seeding. I just assumed with orchard grass it takes the same seeding rates. I didn't really investigate into that.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

How are you planning on getting equipment there?
How are you going to prep it exactly?
How are you going to fertilize it?
How are you going to plant it?

 

[Eric McCarthy]

How are you planning on getting equipment there?
How are you going to prep it exactly?
How are you going to fertilize it?
How are you going to plant it?

Haul it on a goose neck trailer and one ton truck.
I figured a 50hp tractor and a disc, thats why I'm here asking.
Send soil samples off to be tested so we know exactly whats needed.
300lb broadcast spreader on the 3pth and runs off the pto.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You don't broadcast seed pasture fields, you sow them with a row planter, 1/2 depth.
It's not lawn grass, broadcast seeding only works for over seeding established healthy pastures, if you broadcast you will just be wasting the seed!
Your also going to need a loader on the tractor at the site to unload equipment off the trailer such as the disk, harrow, fertilizer spreader, and row planter that you need to do the job.

Just looking at the pictures it doesn't look like there is anything in the ground for the grass seed to even work with, so out of the gate plan on heavy fertilizer of some kind!
Composted manure is the best but you probably won't be able to find the quantity that you need, so plan on paying someone to spread or spray fertilizer, it would be way more than you could haul in a pick up truck!
You will also be putting down starter fertilizer when you seed, most good row seeders do both at the same time.

 

[cerlawson]

I'll bet there is an agriculture department at a state university there that advises farmers on various subjects. Probably free advice there also. I'd explore that first before diving into this. Working with freshly disturbed brush land may result in some unexpected problems, such as stuff coming back up that was not wanted.
Those Ag extension people usually have good practical advice on these subjects.

 

[cerlawson]

Eric:

I did some looking for you. This professor seems to be the ideal guy to talk to. I would bet he will be able to offer great advice, since that is the field he is in : specifically pasturing.

http://www.agriculture.vsu.edu/spec...ural-research-station/people/vitalis-temu.php

 

[UnionMan]

Not sure exactly where you are in Virginia but I know my wife is in the process of sending some soil samples out to be tested. I know since they consider myself a "farmer" they do the samples for free. my wife went by the local office in Fauquier County.

http://www.soiltest.vt.edu/



UnionMan

 

[BotaDriver]

Go for as much free advice as you can, but also bring in a seasoned local farmer who knows the ins and outs of your area. There is no replacement for experience of a given area.

Consider craigslist hay listings. Start your search there. Not just recent posts, all posts you can find. I've found and become a customer of one of the largest producers in the state. These guys will talk your ear off. Typically these guys spend time @ home when they're not in the fields, so offer just compensation for taking up his time. They typically know where the best place to obtain everything you need. You may also check out your states ag website. In Ga we have a program that allows tax exemption on all things ag. It covers pretty much anything used in the production of AG related business, including fencing, even if you're a contractor doing it for someone.

Universities with large Ag departments are also a good start as stated, they often give out every piece of information they find / discover.