Coping steel pipe prior to welding.

McMXi

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
***Current*** M6060HDC, MX6000HSTC & GL7000 ***Sold*** MX6000HST & BX25DLB
Feb 9, 2021
6,017
7,427
113
Montana
FWIW The '50s Freeman loader on my #1 tractor is 2 and 3" round pipe with gussets.
The 'problem' I see with coping is you need a real good tape measure and precise cutting/welding techniques, proper cuts, welding jigs, time.
Nowadays anyone can buy the equipment,hopefully know how to use it to save time,material.
Curious, do you have to have an engineer 'sign off' on the trusses to pass local building codes ?
No engineering sign off is required for any structure in Montana outside of city limits. But if you're concerned, I have a BS and MS in mechanical engineering and have calculated the truss design to meet snow load requirements up here which are 60lb/sq.ft. I've also accounted for wind and static loading.

I have decades of welding experience having worked both below and above the surface of the water, and have passed numerous welding tests over the years required for many welding jobs including stick, MIG, flux-core, dual shield etc. I also have an ASME 5G pipe welding certification (1/8" root gap, 7018 rods, uphill) which is one of the hardest tests to pass so I feel that I'm fairly well qualified for this job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

McMXi

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
***Current*** M6060HDC, MX6000HSTC & GL7000 ***Sold*** MX6000HST & BX25DLB
Feb 9, 2021
6,017
7,427
113
Montana
Welding those clips to the pipe should be straightforward, but you seem to have a lot of experience with coping so go for it.

There is another possibility, you could flatten the ends of the web members, cut them to length and angle, then weld each side to the chord. The fancy way of doing this requires a die, though.

The connection method you choose should be considered by the truss designer.

View attachment 147851
There's no practical way to flatten the ends of the pipe that I'm using (1/4" wall) but I like the way that you're thinking. I'm going to be coping the joints so the only thing to resolve now is how I can efficiently and effectively mark the ends of a bunch of pipes with different angles.
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
12,556
5,406
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
yeesh must get a LOT of snow in Montana !!! kind odd, to me anyway, about 'no sign off' but hay, different place different rules ! Up here local building department wanted timber framer to drill and insert 20' long x 1" threaded rods into the 'bents'. Still shake my head over that.
Obvious you have he tools and talents, just thinking about 'options'. usually the owner will want the project done 'yesterday. If all the trusses are same, master jig should make quick work of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

PoTreeBoy

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L35 Ford 3930
Mar 24, 2020
2,953
1,622
113
WestTn/NoMs
There's no practical way to flatten the ends of the pipe that I'm using (1/4" wall) but I like the way that you're thinking. I'm going to be coping the joints so the only thing to resolve now is how I can efficiently and effectively mark the ends of a bunch of pipes with different angles.
I've made and used heavy paper wraparounds, but for the quantity you're looking at I like @Russell King's plastic templates, especially since you have a printer.

You can be making templates while waiting for the snow to melt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

McMXi

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
***Current*** M6060HDC, MX6000HSTC & GL7000 ***Sold*** MX6000HST & BX25DLB
Feb 9, 2021
6,017
7,427
113
Montana
yeesh must get a LOT of snow in Montana !!! kind odd, to me anyway, about 'no sign off' but hay, different place different rules ! Up here local building department wanted timber framer to drill and insert 20' long x 1" threaded rods into the 'bents'. Still shake my head over that.
Obvious you have he tools and talents, just thinking about 'options'. usually the owner will want the project done 'yesterday. If all the trusses are same, master jig should make quick work of them.
I'm the customer! 😂 I plan on starting out with a 40'x50' barn with the option to add on 10ft at a time. This is purely a structure to keep equipment out of the sun, rain and snow. Snow load up here is based on the 100 year worst case scenario, and the angle, material, insulation, shop heat etc., all factors in.
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
12,556
5,406
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
Well as the 'contractor', you can tell your 'customer' it's TOO SMALL ! Heck another 20' won't cost that much more.....Friend built a 40x60, come move in day, there was STILL 'important stuff' laying outside....... sigh......
My old shop was 40x72, 7 trusses, wood with aluminum siding. Not much of the contents would fit into my 24x24 garage.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user

North Idaho Wolfman

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
31,955
7,691
113
Sandpoint, ID
No engineering sign off is required for any structure in Montana outside of city limits. But if you're concerned, I have a BS and MS in mechanical engineering and have calculated the truss design to meet snow load requirements up here which are 60lb/sq.ft. I've also accounted for wind and static loading.

I have decades of welding experience having worked both below and above the surface of the water, and have passed numerous welding tests over the years required for many welding jobs including stick, MIG, flux-core, dual shield etc. I also have an ASME 5G pipe welding certification (1/8" root gap, 7018 rods, uphill) which is one of the hardest tests to pass so I feel that I'm fairly well qualified for this job.
Ditto we don't have any codes or inspections to follow either, but I had my trusses engineered to 120lbs just so I never had to worry about it.
I think my place is built pretty tough!

You've got plenty of skill so your good to go!
Pipe trusses are incredibly strong!
You really could use the 2" for top and bottom cord and sucker rod for the web.
Theen you would just drill holes in the 2" Insert the sucker rod in the holes, quick weld and you would be good.
But we have, what we have to work with and that stuff has gotten real expensive over the last few years to try and change it.
I'll come over and help, I can weld worth a hoot, but i can use a plasma and can toss steel around.
I can bring one of my fancy carbide chop saws too if you need it.
Make cutting anything super fast.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
12,556
5,406
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
OK, making them is one thing but... yeesh , how HEAVY are they going to be ??
yeah, curious like my cat....
 

Russell King

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L185F, Modern Ag Competitor 4’ shredder, Rhino tiller, rear dirt scoop
Jun 17, 2012
5,631
1,547
113
Austin, Texas
@McMXi

I assume you have to have some type of breather hole in the web piece for welding so you don’t get blowout. But if there is a way to weld it to both the top and bottom chords without a hole I would be interested in knowing how you would do that.

Curiosity has always been my weakness so I can’t help myself asking!
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
12,556
5,406
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
dang...still thinkin....
rough stuff..
2" pipe, 1/4" wall is 5# a foot( well someone on the web says it is...)
say 40' flat truss (easy for me, though I suspect 4/12 in the real build ?)
2 pcs 40' long (chords)
10 pcs for braces ( use 3-4-5 triangle,) 3' high, 4' spacing,= 5' long brace)

so (40*2)+(10x5) = 130'
130 x 5 = 650# weight of truss..

yes, rough calculation but yeesh , a mighty dang HEAVY truss !

best have TWO bowls of Wheaties before lifting ! :oops:
 

PoTreeBoy

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L35 Ford 3930
Mar 24, 2020
2,953
1,622
113
WestTn/NoMs
dang...still thinkin....
rough stuff..
2" pipe, 1/4" wall is 5# a foot( well someone on the web says it is...)
say 40' flat truss (easy for me, though I suspect 4/12 in the real build ?)
2 pcs 40' long (chords)
10 pcs for braces ( use 3-4-5 triangle,) 3' high, 4' spacing,= 5' long brace)

so (40*2)+(10x5) = 130'
130 x 5 = 650# weight of truss..

yes, rough calculation but yeesh , a mighty dang HEAVY truss !

best have TWO bowls of Wheaties before lifting ! :oops:
He's got two tractors to help!
 

McMXi

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
***Current*** M6060HDC, MX6000HSTC & GL7000 ***Sold*** MX6000HST & BX25DLB
Feb 9, 2021
6,017
7,427
113
Montana
Ditto we don't have any codes or inspections to follow either, but I had my trusses engineered to 120lbs just so I never had to worry about it.
I think my place is built pretty tough!

You've got plenty of skill so your good to go!
Pipe trusses are incredibly strong!
You really could use the 2" for top and bottom cord and sucker rod for the web.
Theen you would just drill holes in the 2" Insert the sucker rod in the holes, quick weld and you would be good.
But we have, what we have to work with and that stuff has gotten real expensive over the last few years to try and change it.
I'll come over and help, I can weld worth a hoot, but i can use a plasma and can toss steel around.
I can bring one of my fancy carbide chop saws too if you need it.
Make cutting anything super fast.
Great points and thanks for the offer of help. Getting the trusses up and welded to the columns is the part that takes at least two people so I might be messaging you in a few months. 😂

Some of the webs in a truss are in compression and others in tension. Most truss manufacturers figure out a dimension strong enough for the compressive load and use the same material for the webs in tension which is overkill but it makes for a simpler process with less chance of messing up.
 

McMXi

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
***Current*** M6060HDC, MX6000HSTC & GL7000 ***Sold*** MX6000HST & BX25DLB
Feb 9, 2021
6,017
7,427
113
Montana
dang...still thinkin....
rough stuff..
2" pipe, 1/4" wall is 5# a foot( well someone on the web says it is...)
say 40' flat truss (easy for me, though I suspect 4/12 in the real build ?)
2 pcs 40' long (chords)
10 pcs for braces ( use 3-4-5 triangle,) 3' high, 4' spacing,= 5' long brace)

so (40*2)+(10x5) = 130'
130 x 5 = 650# weight of truss..

yes, rough calculation but yeesh , a mighty dang HEAVY truss !

best have TWO bowls of Wheaties before lifting ! :oops:
A 30ft 6:12 truss made entirely from 2" pipe with a .154" wall is around 450lb. I went over my calculations in my notebook and realized that my original plan was to build a 30ft x 60ft barn so that's most likely what I'll do given the location and such.

I bought a CAI 84" boom pole a few years ago that's rated at 1,800lb and it'll be interesting to calculate whether or not the M6060 in "power" setting can safely raise a 30ft truss so that the bottom cord is 16ft off the ground. Obviously the tractor would need sufficient counter weight on the 3-point, and the ground would need to be level to reduce the chances of tipping the tractor over.

Here's the boom pole on the MX6000 which is a fair bit smaller than the M6060. I think it's about 16ft to 17ft to the apex of the roof of the garage.

mx6000_cai_boom_pole.jpg
 
Last edited:

North Idaho Wolfman

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
31,955
7,691
113
Sandpoint, ID
A 30ft 6:12 truss made entirely from 2" pipe with a .154" wall is around 450lb. I went over my calculations in my notebook and realized that my original plan was to build a 30ft x 60ft barn so that's most likely what I'll do given the location and such.

I bought a CAI 84" boom pole a few years ago that's rated at 1,800lb and it'll be interesting to calculate whether or not the M6060 in "power" setting can safely raise a 30ft truss so that the bottom cord is 16ft off the ground. Obviously the tractor would need sufficient counter weight on the 3-point, and the ground would need to be level to reduce the chances of tipping the tractor over.

Here's the boom pole on the MX6000 which is a fair bit smaller than the M6060. I think it's about 16ft to 17ft to the apex of the roof of the garage.

View attachment 147919
My wood trusses for the house were pretty heavy, easily in the 250 to 300 range, 44 foot long 9'6" tall and my little L did fine and dandy moving them around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

BX25D Rookie

Active member

Equipment
2011 BX 25LB-R (dirt work, snow, and brush hogging) & 2013 BX 2370 (mowing lawn)
Mar 21, 2019
129
113
43
upstate, NY USA
My friend & local neighbor put up this 50' x 40' building over the last six or so months.
He owns a water and septic business, and recently acquired a used well drilling machine.
The well drilling machine is actually a well pounding machine, not rotary.
So now he is good for ground to glass water systems.
Like me he's cheap with his money. Frugal or cautious is likely a better word choice.

When I need assistance with heating/water/septic systems, I call him.
When he needs assistance with machinery, or needs some custom machine shop work done, he calls me.
I have even gone out on some of his well system job sites and helped pull inoperative well pumps from 400 feet below ground. One hand washes the other... Several years ago we redid my septic leach field at the house using the Arch-Chamber system.

He did my water system at the recreational property/cabin.

This thread here, post # 47: https://www.orangetractortalks.com/...bota-tractor-and-building-a-camp.39559/page-3

For his new building, he called in many favors, and did all the construction himself with friends.
He had a local engineer spec out the trusses.
A local lumber yard built the trusses and delivered them to the job site.
Each truss is slightly more than 650 pounds. Truss length is 46 feet, 40' span, 3' overhang on each end.
He rented the boom lift, and borrowed a supremely skilled operator. I don't remember the truss height.

He started with 25 tri-axle dump trucks of asphalt road millings, and filled in the area for the new building. Then rolling & vibratory tamping between layers of fill.
Approximately one million pounds of asphalt millings. (nearby mill & fill road work taking place)
Delivered by the town & county to the job site at zero cost to my neighbor as they needed a dump site.

Next was the concrete pad, zero rebar, high PSI rated concrete with long/cut fibers in the mix.
Eight bodies for the concrete work, excluding the concrete truck drivers.

IMG_20241029_162626354_HDR by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

Then he and friends built/erected the walls and skinned them.
We brought about half of the trusses inside the building through the large center garage door
opening and lifted them up into place. Five/six bodies for the truss install job.

After about half of the trusses were installed, we no longer had the truss length clearance
for lifting them into place from inside the building.

IMG_20241207_124043799_HDR by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

Then we started hoisting trusses and doing the install from the front of the building.
It is sketchy doing them in that manner, as we had to "hook" them so they balanced "level" and
were very cumbersome with the rotational ability for placing them not in play due to the hook point and anchored point (short/front leg of the truss against the forks lower support platform for stability.
In this hoisting manner, the trusses are not hanging freely from the strap.

Finally, the two very most left trusses were hoisted from the extreme left side of the new building.
They had to be hoisted up and over existing buildings (sheds) and was very time consuming due to obstacles. But we did get all the trusses hoisted and installed without anything being damaged or any injuries.

IMG_20241208_152150093_HDR by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

Last week I stopped over for a visit, the building is materially complete.
The metal roof is on now, it's insulated, skinned inside and out including the ceiling, the garage doors and garage door openers are in, some rudimentary electrical system/breaker box/some receptacles in boxes.
The best part, a monster sized wood stove was in the corner and operating.
The building is ~ 16' to the ceiling, and will have a 13,500 pound asymmetrical vehicle hoist installed at some time in the future.
My buddy runs Ford F 450 4 x 4 trucks with work boxes on the back for his business. A pair.
He, and I have figured out that good mechanical work/vehicle/machinery repairs is somewhat hard to find. The vehicle hoist will allow him to do most mechanical work himself.

I did ask him what he had invested in the new building, the answer was $46k. (USA)
Winter is his slow business time, so he had time for the new building job during the "off season" but
I can tell you, it certainly was not very much fun due to the cold/snow/ice.

For hoisting trusses, a boom lift and skilled operator will make the job much easier and safer.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

2001TLB

Member

Equipment
L48TLB, 60" EA SSQA Root Rake Grapple, EA SSQA Fork lift
Nov 14, 2021
60
51
18
Shelton, Washington
No engineering sign off is required for any structure in Montana outside of city limits. But if you're concerned, I have a BS and MS in mechanical engineering and have calculated the truss design to meet snow load requirements up here which are 60lb/sq.ft. I've also accounted for wind and static loading.

I have decades of welding experience having worked both below and above the surface of the water, and have passed numerous welding tests over the years required for many welding jobs including stick, MIG, flux-core, dual shield etc. I also have an ASME 5G pipe welding certification (1/8" root gap, 7018 rods, uphill) which is one of the hardest tests to pass so I feel that I'm fairly well qualified for this job.
You are definately qualified. You got this.

Doug