Chip DPF Delete Discussion

[SidecarFlip]

Non issue for me. Both mine are pre Tier 4 engines. Was just looking at a new 130 horse Kubota and my dealer told me that if I want to trade either of mine in, he would guarantee me 90% of the original purchase price on trade. he said the pre tier 4 engines are in great demand. I can understand that for sure.

Kubota ain't the only one, they all are having teething issues.

 

[RLDennis]

AGROTRONIC]

So I am supposed to Take my tractor to Canada to get this done? Less expensive to just buy the new DPF for $2900.00

 

[bernhardine]

So I am supposed to Take my tractor to Canada to get this done?

no, to Poland.
(and maybe you get only the DPF back and your tractor already runs in Russia )

Less expensive to just buy the new DPF for $2900.00

Why buy a new DPF? - With nomal operation and maintenance they last 10000 hours and more.

 

[SidecarFlip]

So I am supposed to Take my tractor to Canada to get this done? Less expensive to just buy the new DPF for $2900.00

....... and you will eventually if it's not cleanable. Bank on that. 500 to clean today, may be more later down the road. Of course if you off it and buy another, then the next owner gets to pay the piper...

 

[SidecarFlip]

no, to Poland.
(and maybe you get only the DPF back and your tractor already runs in Russia )



Why buy a new DPF? - With nomal operation and maintenance they last 10000 hours and more.

That is totally incorrect. 2500 rengens or 3000 meter hours under OPTIMUM operating conditions before the motor derates and cleaning or replacement is required.

Right out of the Kubota DPF WSM.

Don't matter to me, don't have one...lol

 

[bernhardine]

... 2500 rengens or 3000 meter hours

Would mean 1 regeneration every hour (60 minutes operarion + 12 minutes regen)
sorry, never heard such a bullshit before

 

[SidecarFlip]

Would mean 1 regeneration every hour (60 minutes operarion + 12 minutes regen)
sorry, never heard such a bullshit before

The pressure differential across the DPF cannister determines the regen frequency and nothing else so the tractor only goes into regen when the pressure differential exceeds the programmed in parameters in the ECM. That could be as often as once an hour or once a week or once a month depending on engine load. However, there is an electronic counter built into the ECM that will determine total running hours and regen cycles. When those parameters are reached, it's time to clean or renew the element.

How it works.

Actually, in a Class 6-8 heavy truck diesel, it works the same way with the addition of Urea in the SCR.


Additionally, I'd appreciate you not use vulgar language. This is a family forum. Keep the vulgar stuff out of here... Thanks in advance.

 

[sheepfarmer]

The pressure differential across the DPF cannister determines the regen frequency and nothing else so the tractor only goes into regen when the pressure differential exceeds the programmed in parameters in the ECM. That could be as often as once an hour or once a week or once a month depending on engine load. However, there is an electronic counter built into the ECM that will determine total running hours and regen cycles. When those parameters are reached, it's time to clean or renew the element.

How it works.

Actually, in a Class 6-8 heavy truck diesel, it works the same way with the addition of Urea in the SCR.


Additionally, I'd appreciate you not use vulgar language. This is a family forum. Keep the vulgar stuff out of here... Thanks in advance.

Actually regens are triggered by not only the pressure differences, but also the amount of fuel that has been used, at least in the L60 tractors. This is per a Kubota representative. Some time ago I saw an ad or information about a service that cleaned dpf filters, and I think provided a spare so no downtime. Reasonable cost. What I am saying is for most of us it may be too soon to get excited about it. I am unlikely to put that many hours on my tractor.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Actually regens are triggered by not only the pressure differences, but also the amount of fuel that has been used, at least in the L60 tractors. This is per a Kubota representative. Some time ago I saw an ad or information about a service that cleaned dpf filters, and I think provided a spare so no downtime. Reasonable cost. What I am saying is for most of us it may be too soon to get excited about it. I am unlikely to put that many hours on my tractor.

I believe my dealer offers that service as well. Keith told me around 350 exchange depending on model and if your exchange element isn't cleanable (some aren't) then you have to pony up for a new one (so long as it's past the EPA mandated 5 year emissions component warranty). I have no idea if there is a pro rate involved, didn't get that deep into the details as I don't have that issue.

The Freightliner dealership I retired from had the cleaning machine. 25 grand and then all the spent ash extracted had to go to a hazard waste landfill.

 

[bernhardine]

I have no idea ... didn't get that deep into the details as I don't have that issue.

Always amazing that those, who don't own, don't operate, don't maintain and don't repair these emission systems are those, which are writing the most about it.

I'd appreciate you not use vulgar language.

Sorry, shoudn't have done that.

... so the tractor only goes into regen when the pressure differential exceeds the programmed in parameters in the ECM. That could be as often as once an hour or once a week or once a month depending on engine load.

As matter of fact, it's still b...s..t!

 

[lugbolt]

There's a LOT more to the regeneration processes than most of you understand; and that's all I'm gonna say about that part of it.

There might/might not be a footprint left in the ecu's. Stop and think about it. All of the delete kits will defeat the emissions devices which is obviously a violation of federal emissions regulations.

I'm told that it has happened already. To what extent I do not know.

You cannot modify the DPF. It will still try to regenerate.

Last thing I'm gonna say is leave them alone and you'll be fine. Start "playing" and you're gambling. This newer stuff is totally different than the old and keep that in mind.

I have "heard" a lot of things and I ain't repeating a lot of it but the information I was subjected to was eye opening. So in other words, leave the crap alone....or buy an old wore out tractor and not deal with it.

I still say gas engines should be in smaller (sub 80hp) tractors. That or electric; which might be an option for hobby farms and the like that only use it maybe an hour or so a day. Each carries their challenges, however.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Thank you... Lugbolt.

On this subject....or buy an old wore out tractor and not deal with it.... That is me or should I say buy new and keep it.

On the subject of 'getting caught', Federal DOT officers are now checking the opacity of diesel exhaust in roadside DOT compliance checks and in weigh stations.

Pretty simple really. You pull into a designated spot between 2 photo electric eyes, push the fuel pedal down to the floor (diesels will only free rev to a preset maximum rpm) and the 'eyes' measure the emitted visible particulates. If they don't fall within specific Federal mandated guidelines for that particular year of truck, you are in immediate deep do do. That is when they really start looking and believe me, it's a very expensive fine plus you have to get in compliance right there so it will probably involve a wrecker bill too.

Not sure if any agency is checking tractors yet, I imagine that if anywhere it would be California but I also would imagine that if you wanted to trade a unit in that had been modified, it wouldn't be worth a plug nickle. You could do a private sale I guess but that still wouldn't relieve you of the responsibility if down the road, the new owner required service from an authorized dealer and the dealer became aware that the emissions system had been tampered with.

It's a slippery slope anyway you cut it. I'll just keep on running my pre 4 units, thank you.

For the life of me, I just don't understand why people want to defeat the system. What is the gain? You know going in that the motor is a Tier 4 final so deal with it.

I don't want one. I have no need. Having said that however, if something drastic mechanically happened to one of mine, I'd either be forced to buy used (which today is basically non-existent) or purchase a post 4 unit and if I did, I'd not be fiddling with it to 'delete' the Federal Mandated emissions hardware. That is a direct violation of Federal Law and like drilling the ROPS structure, makes the unit worthless for resale or trade.

Sure, it's yours and so you can 'modify it' anyway you want to but, be aware of the ramifications down the road because nothing is forever.

 

[shootem604]

Here's a somewhat local example:
http://www.metrovancouver.org/nonroaddiesel
http://www.metrovancouver.org/boards/Bylaws1/GVRD_Bylaw_1161.pdf

A regional district (similar to a county) government here in BC is regulating Tier 0 and Tier 1 diesels over 25hp. You have to register them, affix decals, pay fees, etc. Probably got the idea from California or some similar hippie dippy place.

 

[torch]

8. This bylaw does not apply to non-road diesel engines that power:

...

(2) personal recreational machines, including personal snow mobiles and all-terrain vehicles; or

...

I personally use my 4wd Kubota on all types of terrain, including snow, puttering about my property -- which as we all know, is a form of recreation.

 

[KHW59]

i personally use my 4wd kubota on all types of terrain, including snow, puttering about my property -- which as we all know, is a form of recreation.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Here's a somewhat local example:
http://www.metrovancouver.org/nonroaddiesel
http://www.metrovancouver.org/boards/Bylaws1/GVRD_Bylaw_1161.pdf

A regional district (similar to a county) government here in BC is regulating Tier 0 and Tier 1 diesels over 25hp. You have to register them, affix decals, pay fees, etc. Probably got the idea from California or some similar hippie dippy place.

Sheesh, sounds like it was either pulled from some obscure Kalifornia regulation or your politicians have way too much time on their hands, or both.

Glad I don't live there but then you do have that Prime Minister with the droopy eyebrows....

Register them, pay fees always money involved... and affix stickers. What hogwash. Glad I live south of the border (Canadian).

I plan on running my pre 4 engines until I die and some one will assuredly by them and run them some more. Hard to kill a diesel with no emissions hardware on it.

 

[LittleBigJim]

Has anyone here ever done a DPF delete on a B3350 Kubota ? If so, how is it working ?
I suppose you have to remove the filters from the DPF muffler after getting the ECU reprogramed, right ?

 

[SDT]

Has anyone here ever done a DPF delete on a B3350 Kubota ? If so, how is it working ?
I suppose you have to remove the filters from the DPF muffler after getting the ECU reprogramed, right ?

This has been discussed before and no DPF packages are commercially available for obvious reasons.

That said, the B3350 is mechanically injected, so it is theoretically possible to simply remove the DPF and fake out the ECM.

SDT

 

[LittleBigJim]

This has been discussed before and no DPF packages are commercially available for obvious reasons.

That said, the B3350 is mechanically injected, so it is theoretically possible to simply remove the DPF and fake out the ECM.

SDT

I'm kind of computer illiterate, so I assume "fake out" means reprogrammed, or delete the regeneration process ?

 

[SDT]

I'm kind of computer illiterate, so I assume "fake out" means reprogrammed, or delete the regeneration process ?

You will not find anyone in the US who will reprogram your ECM for you. Probably no one anywhere.

It is theoretically possible that circuitry could be designed to make the ECM believe that the DPF is in place, properly functioning, and that regen is not (never) needed.

SDT