Add backhoe hyd after 3rd function and rear remotes

[miket1]

I have a L3901 DT and added Summits 3rd function and rear remote kit a year or so ago, but now bought a backhoe and need to hook it up for continuous flow. So that means I have to run new lines somehow. All info that I have found show adding 3rd function and/or rear remotes after having lines run for backhoe. From what I understand the backhoe should be last in line but all I have seen show it differently. ( not last in line )

I have searched and searched, watched videos etc and struggling understanding the entire system.

That being said, something TheOldHokie wrote struck a chord. He said "The T port on the Summit 3rd function valve can be used as is for the power beyond feed to your remotes. Its the exact same setup as Landpride OEM."

I have the valves on the rear of the tractor, with a P and T port plugged ( other end goes to 3rd function IIRC ). So can I connect the backhoe to plugged the T
port and it work with no issues? Where does the other line go? ( apparently the T will feed the backhoe, so need to know how to get it back to the tank line ) Apparently since it runs through the valves in a open system it will never be dead headed?

I do realize I may be ( probably ) completely misunderstanding this, I am ( was? ) quite mechanically inclined, but just cannot wrap my head around this

 

[miket1]

There is also a video showing the backhoe first, before rear remotes/3rd function. Wouldn't this make the downstream stuff not work since the backhoe ( apparently) is a closed center system? Downstream stuff would work if I disconnected the backhoe and then connected the 2 lines, right? And the backhoe is not last in line as is repeatedly recommended

 

[TheOldHokie]

View attachment 152568


There is also a video showing the backhoe first, before rear remotes/3rd function. Wouldn't this make the downstream stuff not work since the backhoe ( apparently) is a closed center system? Downstream stuff would work if I disconnected the backhoe and then connected the 2 lines, right? And the backhoe is not last in line as is repeatedly recommended

Assuming BH77 its a simple two hose change.

1. Disconnect remote valve power beyond hose at tractor outlet block and connect to backhoe supply.
2. Connect backhoe return to tractor outlet block.

When backhoe is not mounted the supply and return lines MUST be looped together

Dan

 

[miket1]

Unfortunately it is not a BH77, it is an aftermarket backhoe. I have no idea if they work the same, maybe bh77 is set up for open center system? I have no way of finding out if this one is. It also has ( currently non functioning) pto pump on it, so assuming it's not open center )

 

[TheOldHokie]

Unfortunately it is not a BH77, it is an aftermarket backhoe. I have no idea if they work the same, maybe bh77 is set up for open center system? I have no way of finding out if this one is. It also has ( currently non functioning) pto pump on it, so assuming it's not open center )

Then you need to identify the connections to the backhoe valve.

My guess is almost surely open center without power beyond abd connects just like a BH77.

Dan

 

[old and tired]

If the unknown backhoe had a PTO pump (that's not working now) it would have it's own hydraulic tank that would be contained on the hoe itself. Most likely it's plumbed for much higher GPM than the tractor can do... Photos of the pump and the hoe would be helpful.

 

[miket1]

I don't see any markings like P or PB. Can't find info in a search for HM:ZT6/60 either.

 

[TheOldHokie]

View attachment 152577

I don't see any markings like P or PB. Can't find info in a search for HM:ZT6/60 either.

Look at the hoses going to pump and reservoir. One hose from pump and one hose to tank is my bet. Since its self contained wirh its own pump there is no need for a separate power beyond circuit.

If you are going to use the tractor hydraulics those two hoses will go to the tractor as I described earlier.

Dan

 

[miket1]

If the unknown backhoe had a PTO pump (that's not working now) it would have it's own hydraulic tank that would be contained on the hoe itself. Most likely it's plumbed for much higher GPM than the tractor can do... Photos of the pump and the hoe would be helpful.

The guy I bought it from had it hooked up directly to his old JD tractor. He said he originally used the pto pump, but switched it to tractor hydraulics because the tank was too small in his opinion and it kept sucking air.

 

[miket1]

Look at the hoses going to pump and reservoir. One hose from pump and one hose to tank is my bet. Since its self contained wirh its own pump there is no need for a separate power beyond circuit.

If ypu are going to use the tractpr hydraulics those two hoses will go to the tractor as I described earloer.

Dan

The hoses have been disconnected from the pto pump by the seller, years ago. There is one hose coming off each side of the valve, one with a male quick connect at the end, the other with a female.

 

[miket1]

One connection on the pto pump is open, no hose. I am sure the pump has gotten dirt or water in it and is bad. I wasn't concerned about that since I planned on using the tractor connections

 

[TheOldHokie]

The hoses have been disconnected from the pto pump by the seller, years ago. There is one hose coming off each side of the valve, one with a male quick connect at the end, the other with a female.

Like I said, open center with pressure IN and TANK return connections. Thats the same as a BH77 and you would plumb it the same as a BH77.

Dan

 

[miket1]

Like I said, open center with pressure IN and TANK return connections. Thats the same as a BH77 and you would plumb it the same as a BH77.

Dan

Sorry, I misunderstood the part about power beyond. I sincerely appreciate the help! I am sure glad to see it will be fairly easy, thanks again

 

[TheOldHokie]

Sorry, I misunderstood the part about power beyond. I sincerely appreciate the help! I am sure glad to see it will be fairly easy, thanks again

Did you understand what I said about changing your existing plumbing?

Since this is a 3pt hoe you will need the use of the 3pt lift which is going to be different than the BH77. Hopefully the valve on your hoe can deal with that pressure.

Dan

 

[miket1]

Did you understand what I said about changing your existing plumbing?

Since this is a 3pt hoe you will need the use of the 3pt lift which is going to be different than the BH77. Hopefully the valve on your hoe can deal with that pressure.

Dan

I do, but since I will need to use the 3pt, what other options do I have? My plan was to get the 3pt where I needed it to be then lock it somehow ( maybe just bungee it down against the adjustable stop ).

 

[TheOldHokie]

I do, but since I will need to use the 3pt, what other options do I have? My plan was to get the 3pt where I needed it to be then lock it somehow ( maybe just bungee it down against the adjustable stop ).

You have the idea but I doubt bungees will do the job. I would be thinking some sort of structural lock on the lift arms.

Dan

 

[miket1]

My understanding is that if the 3pt lever is all the way down there will be no flow through the 3pt system. I do realize I will have to raise them a small amount to get thing to line up, will fixing the lever in this position prevent flow through the 3pt system, or is that only if its all the way down?

 

[TheOldHokie]

My understanding is that if the 3pt lever is all the way down there will be no flow through the 3pt system. I do realize I will have to raise them a small amount to get thing to line up, will fixing the lever in this position prevent flow through the 3pt system, or is that only if its all the way down?

There is always flow through the 3pt valve.

With the lever full down flow is to tank with almost no back pressure on upstream valves .E.G. bavkhoe

With the lever up flow goes one of two routes. If the 3pt is being raised flow goes to lift cylunder and enough back pressure is generated to lift the load. If 3pt is in a "hold" position flow goes to tank just as im the down case.

Dan

 

[miket1]

So, in theory, if the lever is never moved after the BH is hooked up, the 3pt should never increase pressures? The BH weighs about 1000lb, which is about 1/3 of the lift capacity of the BH, plus its hanging way off there, so moving the lever could basically drastically increase pressures I would assume. Like nearly double it? ( just assuming that maxing the 3pt lift capacity would double the pressure ) Its not exactly a well made BH, so I could see that being an issue.

 

[TheOldHokie]

So, in theory, if the lever is never moved after the BH is hooked up, the 3pt should never increase pressures? The BH weighs about 1000lb, which is about 1/3 of the lift capacity of the BH, plus its hanging way off there, so moving the lever could basically drastically increase pressures I would assume. Like nearly double it? ( just assuming that maxing the 3pt lift capacity would double the pressure ) Its not exactly a well made BH, so I could see that being an issue.

If it were me I would devise some sort of mechanical lock for the lift arms to hold it rigidly in place oonce its mounted. You really need that to protect the tractor 3pt mounts just like the subframe on a BH77.

To mount the backhoe back tractor upvto hoe. connect the hydraluc lines, and use the backhoe boom and stabilizers to raise it to the desired height BEFORE pinning it to the 3pt arms and top link.

Once pinned to the 3pt install the locking devices. Once locked in place the 3pt lever can be moved to the full down position just like a BH77.

Dismount woould be the reverse.

Dan