There was a post on here a while back from
@North Idaho Wolfman politely admonishing folks to be careful about giving advice, I think but am not positive it was directed toward repair advice, outside the poster’s true scope of knowledge. Just because something is what it is on a L2501 doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the same on a L2502 even though they’re pretty similar; that sort of thing.
After reading through this thread for the first time since I posted something in it a while back, with due respect to all involved, I suggest the same principle be applied to these insurance discussions which come up once in a while.
The explanations I see in these threads, even from some very well respected members who clearly are wicked smart regarding tractors, implements, and a variety of other matters, are entirely comparable to giving someone directions on plumbing in a rear remote that result in dead heading the hydraulic pump. Different subject, same result if the advice is followed to the letter. And if you think trashing a hydraulic pump on a tractor is bad, try finding out you don’t have coverage to pay for your tractor or your liability arising from ownership, maintenance, or use of your tractor after it’s involved in an accident where it’s severely damaged and you have others who are coming after you for injuries and property damage you allegedly caused only to find out the coverage you thought you had based on experience or understanding of someone who isn’t in a comparable position or location was wrong and you’re on your own for payment of all damages and defense costs.
I’ve never said much about my vocation because if, prior to retirement, I said, “I work for ____” or even say enough that I was reasonably identifiable, that made me subject to all of my employer’s internet and social media rules, which would make things really complicated to the point I’d just have to quit posting, Now that I’m retired, I’m still not saying the company’s name out of continued respect for them, but these threads really drive me nuts…
After working a couple of physical jobs, June 4, 1990 I started as a secretary in the claims department of a small insurance company that specialized in farms and rural risks. I was licensed May 4, 1991. Until I retired at the end of 2023, I worked virtually every job in that company’s claim department up to and including District Claims Manager. Throughout all those years I worked, supervised, and/or developed procedures to handle property (personal lines, commercial lines, church, farm) and liability (property damage, bodily injury, uninsured motorist, underinsured motorist, umbrella) claims. Had to appraise all of it: cars, houses, farm structures, commercial structures, motorcycles, heavy trucks, etc. If the company wrote it, I dealt with the claims. Worked more catastrophes than I can remember, first as a front line field adjuster and later as a field coordinator with a staff between 15 and 120 depending how bad it was. I know that’s pretty odd to not be more specialized; the company was working on that the last few years I was there, but with only 100 adjusters in the whole company when I started, specialization wasn’t an option for a long time. Despite my retirement I’ve kept up my CE requirements and am still licensed in NC. I’ve worked in a few other states on catastrophes where license reciprocity was temporarily recognized, but have never been licensed in any other states.
I still get at least a couple of calls a month from the agents and adjusters I used to work with asking questions, usually some oddball coverage question. If I didn’t still have a license, I wouldn’t answer. Maybe that’s why I keep it, I’m not sure. I am sure that’s why I don’t answer specific questions about insurance in states other than NC; I’m not licensed and I know enough to know that my expertise beyond very general principles stops at the state line. And I don’t answer questions about various insurance companies’ underwriting requirements because there’s no way to know what they are without checking with one of their agents in the state where the risk will be written. If the OP was in NC I’d have to ask him about a dozen questions before I’d be able to give specific advice.
One of the things that bothered me the most throughout my career, which never really abated: when people legitimately thought they had coverage for something but they didn’t; when they didn’t have any reasonable understanding of their coverage until they had a claim. I’ve had many customers who paid premium for years and when something bad happened, they filed a claim and hoped. A few had more coverage than they expected, most in the hope and pray group had less than expected. If you choose not to insure something, fine. So long as it’s a conscious business decision to retain that risk yourself, whether first party of third party, and you don’t expect it to be covered, that’s swell. However, you should understand where your risks are and understand your coverage for those risks BEFORE a loss arises, not AFTER.
Example scenario from NC: insured owns the structure they live in and the 10 acres it sits on. They take out a policy to cover it. Couple years later, they get a 50hp tractor with loader to bush hog some of the area outside the yard. A little later, they get a tiller for the tractor and start a garden. They’ve used the tractor a half dozen times for work days at their church. It was used once to help clean up storm damage at insured’s brother’s place. Only pay ever received was a case of beer from brother. Agent knows nothing of any of this so it hasn’t been discussed at all. Insured doesn’t usually use it to check the mail, but one day after finishing bush hogging they ride to the end of their driveway to check the mail before going in for the day. For reasons still beyond me, they decide to pull into the public road to make a U-turn to head back to the house. Of course there’s a car on the road, the bucket hits the A-pillar of a crappy old sedan I don’t recall the make of, and as the A-pillar goes inward the head of the 18 year old girl driving moves forward. Their meeting results in a rather impressive blood spatter pattern on the headliner and front seat. Looked like a watermelon hit with a sledgehammer. Car is totaled. Loader is trash. Tractor is messed up but borderline repair v total. Girl lives. One of the toughest people I’ve ever met. Lost her gallbladder because the steering wheel busted it beyond repair. Her previously modeling agency ready face had a couple pretty impressive scars from the 75+ stitches. Probably another scar on her abdomen from the gallbladder thing but never saw that. In the hospital a few days, took out her own stitches, never sought any other medical treatment, so those bills were only about $135,000 (it was a long time ago). She was upset mostly because her fiancé left her immediately upon seeing her busted face in the hospital. (There’s another story there.) The risk could be on a Homeowner Policy, Dwelling Policy, or Mobile Home Owner Policy depending on a variety of underwriting criteria, there are multiple variants of each type policy, and all of the three categories of policies have some variation in the language regarding coverage for “motorized vehicles” both in the property section of the policy and liability section of the policy. The Dwelling Policy might not even have liability coverage; probably does but maybe not. You have to deal with all the claims, determine if the insured is liable for the damage to the car and girl; determine if liability coverage is definitely applicable such that payment is in order if insured likely liable, coverage questionable such that either defending under reservation of rights or filing of a declaratory judgement action is advisable, or coverage clearly inapplicable such that a flat denial of both indemnity and defense is in order. If “on premises” v “off premises” is important you also have to figure out if half the tractor was still in the driveway but the collision occurred completely on the public road is that off premises or on premises. (Hint: That answer is in case law, which is a state court thing so only res judicata in NC although I don’t recall the citation at the moment and don’t care enough to research it.) Assuming insured has a Homeowner 3 with $100,000 personal property coverage, $500,000 liability coverage. Tractor/loader is worth $25,000; Car is worth $1500; Girl’s claim is worth $300,000 inclusive of meds that were negotiated down to $90,000 but this was before Rule 414, so the full $135,000 was still the amount admissible into evidence.
$326,500 total exposure. If you make the wrong call you may waste a lot of money or if you mess it up bad enough you could get your self and your employer into a bad faith/unfair and deceptive trade practice mess where you have to start putting multipliers on those figures above. What do you do? If you think that’s an unfair question, I wasn’t exactly giddy when it showed up on my desk, but I had to answer it and it was pretty important to everyone involved. It’s actually a pretty simple question.
I’m not “gunning” for anyone here. If you have relayed your experience, that’s your experience and it’s perfectly valid. If you’ve had one claim or 30 claims, that experience is valid. But one little detail can turn the whole thing 180 degrees. That and if your experience isn’t in the state of Washington, it’s of limited value to someone in Washington. Following such advice can be quite dangerous. At least as dangerous as advising someone to use a little starting fluid on their Tier 4 diesel that’s hard to start in the cold because if it works on the old Oliver Super 55 it should work for a L3301.
In the future, I will refrain from reading insurance threads. I won’t post anything on any future insurance threads and will try to refrain from anything further on this one. With respect…
