Another 1st Time Buyer Help Thread

[PaulL]

First let me thank you all for all the information. Really helped ramp up my education. Went and visited my local Kubota dealer and am looking at the MX6000. 4wd, HST for loader work, great rear pto HP, and a loader that has plenty of lift capacity.

Great tractor, good decision. I think you could go down to the L-60 series, but no reason to. MX is a good size machine, and better to be bigger than smaller.

Decision i am trying to settle now is Cab vs no cab (see advantages to both). Will be using this thing in VA, year round. Like the idea of heat during cold weather. And who is gonna complain about A/C. But the 10k bump in price and then additional "things that can now go wrong" just has me wondering if its worth it in the end. Yes i know i mentioned some work in the woods and the open cab was recommended for that reason. So perhaps I should stop second guessing and just take that as my sign to save the money and go that route.

The tractor is the thing you buy once. If you buy without a cab and want one, you have to sell the whole tractor and buy a new one. Do it once, do it right. Virginia gets cold and gets hot. Dad always loved his cab tractor (I have an open station). Mowing for 3 hours in a cab is a very different proposition from mowing open station. You can do everything you describe in an open station, but once you're thinking about a cab, just do it. When you drive in the woods, take a chainsaw or a polesaw. Anything that looks like it'll hit your cab, cut it off. Problem solved.

Second thing is questioning attachments up front. Quoted quite a few, but all new attachments really jumps the total at the end. So thinking of just sticking with the front end loader, maybe grapple bucket, and post hole digger (looking at the hydraulic front mount option) to start. Leave the bush hog, pallet forks, blade, and such for down the road and possibly from the used market to save some money.

Definitely focus on the bare tractor up front. If you're tight on money leave some implements for later. You can usually borrow or rent, and a lot of implements can be found way cheaper used if you keep your eyes open. I'd go without an implement for a year or two before I'd compromise on the tractor.

Front end loader: yes, obviously.
Grapple: you don't have to, you can do a lot without. Get the 3rd function, leave the grapple for later. Better if you can get it, but not essential.
Post hole digger: a hydraulic posthole digger is very expensive. Do you need it? Tractors (even an MX) don't have a lot of flow, it'll never go super well. What sort of posts are you putting in, what sort of soil? In my part of the world the pros have all gone away from post hole diggers, because you have to backfill and ram and screw around. They all have post drivers that go on the rear, stack up the posts, bang them in. No filling of holes, no screwing around. And actually way safer than an auger, those things are death traps. But if you must have an auger....just get a cheap one that goes on the back. They should be available used all over the place, they're the kind of thing people buy then don't use much. Often cheap at farm auctions (at least in my part of the world).
Bush hog: I'd be getting that way before a post hole digger. I guess depends how many posts you have to do, but if you can't mow then your tractor is pretty limited. Whereas post hole diggers you can easily rent for a day, or just hire out (doing fencing sucks anyway).
Pallet forks: cheap. Get them elsewhere, or second hand. No reason not to get them though given how cheap they are. And they can be a poor man's grapple.
Blade: depends what use you have. I don't have a blade, but I don't have a gravel driveway.

Things i am thinking that i want to make sure the tractor absolutely has up front are 3rd function and dual rear remotes. Anything else? also someone mentioned to make sure it has a live pto. Not sure what that means?

Live PTO I think means the PTO keeps going when you put the clutch in, so your implement doesn't stop running when you come to the end of a row. But that's really a manual transmission thing, I think all HSTs have a live PTO - the PTO and the transmission aren't directly linked in the same way they are in a manual tractor.

Remotes and 3rd function are cheaper installed while they've got the tractor and doing prep. They'll also discount when you're buying in a way they won't later. But if you're keen to install them yourself, you may be able to save money that way. I feel like many places will sell them installed on a new tractor for about the same price as the parts would cost you later....in which case it's a no brainer.

 

[jyoutz]

Great tractor, good decision. I think you could go down to the L-60 series, but no reason to. MX is a good size machine, and better to be bigger than smaller.


The tractor is the thing you buy once. If you buy without a cab and want one, you have to sell the whole tractor and buy a new one. Do it once, do it right. Virginia gets cold and gets hot. Dad always loved his cab tractor (I have an open station). Mowing for 3 hours in a cab is a very different proposition from mowing open station. You can do everything you describe in an open station, but once you're thinking about a cab, just do it. When you drive in the woods, take a chainsaw or a polesaw. Anything that looks like it'll hit your cab, cut it off. Problem solved.



Definitely focus on the bare tractor up front. If you're tight on money leave some implements for later. You can usually borrow or rent, and a lot of implements can be found way cheaper used if you keep your eyes open. I'd go without an implement for a year or two before I'd compromise on the tractor.

Front end loader: yes, obviously.
Grapple: you don't have to, you can do a lot without. Get the 3rd function, leave the grapple for later. Better if you can get it, but not essential.
Post hole digger: a hydraulic posthole digger is very expensive. Do you need it? Tractors (even an MX) don't have a lot of flow, it'll never go super well. What sort of posts are you putting in, what sort of soil? In my part of the world the pros have all gone away from post hole diggers, because you have to backfill and ram and screw around. They all have post drivers that go on the rear, stack up the posts, bang them in. No filling of holes, no screwing around. And actually way safer than an auger, those things are death traps. But if you must have an auger....just get a cheap one that goes on the back. They should be available used all over the place, they're the kind of thing people buy then don't use much. Often cheap at farm auctions (at least in my part of the world).
Bush hog: I'd be getting that way before a post hole digger. I guess depends how many posts you have to do, but if you can't mow then your tractor is pretty limited. Whereas post hole diggers you can easily rent for a day, or just hire out (doing fencing sucks anyway).
Pallet forks: cheap. Get them elsewhere, or second hand. No reason not to get them though given how cheap they are. And they can be a poor man's grapple.
Blade: depends what use you have. I don't have a blade, but I don't have a gravel driveway.


Live PTO I think means the PTO keeps going when you put the clutch in, so your implement doesn't stop running when you come to the end of a row. But that's really a manual transmission thing, I think all HSTs have a live PTO - the PTO and the transmission aren't directly linked in the same way they are in a manual tractor.

Remotes and 3rd function are cheaper installed while they've got the tractor and doing prep. They'll also discount when you're buying in a way they won't later. But if you're keen to install them yourself, you may be able to save money that way. I feel like many places will sell them installed on a new tractor for about the same price as the parts would cost you later....in which case it's a no brainer.

This ^^^^. Lots of good advice.

 

[pandemic326]

Not to complicate matters but want to prevent any second guessing. If I focus in dropping the attachments and focus on the tractor, and go with the can because you all are doing such a good job convincing me, should I look at one more level jump. The consensus seems to be from what everyone is saying that the hst gets robbed of HP going up hills under load and is impacted by heat and gpm flow.

so should I consider stepping up to an m series with shuttle shift? Want to make sure I have enough power to pull the 8x16 shed on skids should I want to relocate it or the coop. Plus full loader buckets. Also have zero reference if I’m comparing an f250 vs f350 when it comes to carrying plywood.

I doo ok know there is a warranty loss so to speak I’m going from an Mx to an m series as well. Don’t know what other things to think about like if the clutch will need to be replaced more often or more maintenance.

or if I’m being stupid and the Mx series is more than what I need.

 

[GrumpyFarmer]

Not to complicate matters but want to prevent any second guessing. If I focus in dropping the attachments and focus on the tractor, and go with the can because you all are doing such a good job convincing me, should I look at one more level jump. The consensus seems to be from what everyone is saying that the hst gets robbed of HP going up hills under load and is impacted by heat and gpm flow.

so should I consider stepping up to an m series with shuttle shift? Want to make sure I have enough power to pull the 8x16 shed on skids should I want to relocate it or the coop. Plus full loader buckets. Also have zero reference if I’m comparing an f250 vs f350 when it comes to carrying plywood.

I doo ok know there is a warranty loss so to speak I’m going from an Mx to an m series as well. Don’t know what other things to think about like if the clutch will need to be replaced more often or more maintenance.

or if I’m being stupid and the Mx series is more than what I need.

Good day.

I might be a just little VERY biased towards an MX, but for a property that you have described it’s not unreasonable to have more than one tractor/machine. Actually it may be hard not to wind up with more than one.

Personally I like having multiple…so I am biased there too. It’s hard for me say one way or another since I really dont understand the lay of your land, scope of your chores, and layout of buildings. Maybe there are buildings there now and maybe you will add some…I don’t really know. Depending on what chores you have to do, in some cases a smaller machine might a little better. Really depends on what how you plan to do your chores.

Personally, if there is any thought to have a second machine at some point I’d think about what sizes gives the best of capabilities. If there is any consideration to have wheel/tracked loader, they do great with fence posts, brush hogging, and loader work. They also are superior in terms of lifting vs a tractor.

If trying to do just one machine I would probably be leaning towards an M for what you have described (assuming you do not prefer HST). I went with an MX / HST for ease of use for my spousal unit. If the M had HST, that would be the simple solution. Mx is a great value IMO, but I think you get more machine for the money with an M. If geared vs HST doesn’t make a difference in your case that’s a helpful datapoint.

If it were me I’d wonder what chores would the M be a better solution than an MX? Then would I rather have a wheel/track loader for those situations. Are there any chores the MX is a better solution than the M?

You are most likely the only one of the forum that truly understands your situation so I think go with your gut.

Good luck.

 

[old and tired]

OTT strikes again... Talked another one with no tractor experience into spending a boat load of money for an oversized (IMO) tractor...

Sorry, I'm someone that loves getting work done with the LEAST amount of tractor. Let me point out a couple of things before you spend $55k+ on a new "homestead" tractor. I'm guessing you didn't win the lottery this year. Is the tractor part of a business expense? Or are You paying cash for the tractor?

A tractor is pretty worthless without attachments; which cost money, the bigger the tractor the more expensive implements are for it. Mowers, chippers, box and/or rear blades, grapple, tiller, disks, subsoiler, cultivator, post hole digger and whatever else you might find a need for.

I got 28 acres by Hillsville, Va.; we planned on retiring up there, doing homestead stuff, gardens, tons of apple trees, food plots, built a road down to the creek... all with my tiny L2800 which was $15k. It takes longer to do things with a small tractor but that's just more seat time!

It's your choice... just make sure you see the whole picture. Good luck...

[edit to add]; Were you planning to trailer this tractor yourself? I can use a 7k trailer and move mine but with a MX, you are looking at 10k trailer and a truck sized for it....

 

[Grandad4]

If you are just getting into tractors, the large L and MX models are a good size to work with. While the larger M series is heavier and more capable, it requires larger, more expensive implements and could be a bigger challenge for a low-hours operator.

Also, the Grand L's and MX's shound be entirely adequate for property improvement and maintenance tasks. Step up to the M series if you see agricultural work in you future (row crops, hay/silage, livestock); consider adding or renting a second machine (skid steer, excavator) if the land clearing or re-grading is extensive.

Whatever size tractor you choose, don't get just the tractor and loader without adding weight behind the tractor for ballast of some kind. Without ballast, you can't lift very much in the loader before the rear wheels come off the ground!

 

[PaulL]

Not to complicate matters but want to prevent any second guessing. If I focus in dropping the attachments and focus on the tractor, and go with the can because you all are doing such a good job convincing me, should I look at one more level jump. The consensus seems to be from what everyone is saying that the hst gets robbed of HP going up hills under load and is impacted by heat and gpm flow.

so should I consider stepping up to an m series with shuttle shift? Want to make sure I have enough power to pull the 8x16 shed on skids should I want to relocate it or the coop. Plus full loader buckets. Also have zero reference if I’m comparing an f250 vs f350 when it comes to carrying plywood.

I doo ok know there is a warranty loss so to speak I’m going from an Mx to an m series as well. Don’t know what other things to think about like if the clutch will need to be replaced more often or more maintenance.

or if I’m being stupid and the Mx series is more than what I need.

Now I think you're overthinking. I think the MX is at the top end of what you should need, and I wouldn't go to a shuttle shift unless you're doing a lot of ground engaging work.

I'd expect you can pull the shed, you just might pull it slower. It's not a task you'd do every day. There's always ways to apply leverage if you had to, or to lift or nudge it to get it started.

"Robbed of HP" is all relative, I think it's a thing people on the internet talk about rather than actual farmers. A 60HP M is quite a bit heavier, than an MX that also "robs" it of HP. If you're worried about power loss, I'd be more inclined to stay away from filling the tires. I think the HP loss in an HST is about 10% or less. Buy the right amount of HP for what you want to do and don't worry about it. The only exception is if you plan to go out and plow a field or make hay in the middle of summer. Those all day long field work tasks would be a little bit better with a shuttle shift. More than anything the bonus is you can set the speed and leave it rather than having to have your foot on the HST all day - that can get tiring at a constant speed.

An HST is quite a bit easier to operate for anything that involves creeping, positioning, and any tasks that involve going back and forth (like loader work).

 

[McMXi]

"Robbed of HP" is all relative, I think it's a thing people on the internet talk about rather than actual farmers. A 60HP M is quite a bit heavier, than an MX that also "robs" it of HP. If you're worried about power loss, I'd be more inclined to stay away from filling the tires. I think the HP loss in an HST is about 10% or less.

I'm not a farmer but I have a combined 6 years and hundreds of hours owning, using and comparing two MX6000s and an M6060 on my hilly 20 acres, my friend's relatively flat 20 acres and various properties around the valley. The real-world difference in useable hp and torque under similar conditions, doing similar tasks and in similar weather is more than evident. I own both, use both, pull lots of implements with both, have picked up lots of stuff with both, have moved dirt with both etc.

The MX has an advertised net 59.5hp whereas the M6060 has an advertised net 63.5hp. Those numbers seem close on paper but in the real world they are miles apart. They are completely different animals, but you have to use them to know that.

"Step up to the M series if you see agricultural work in you future (row crops, hay/silage, livestock);"

I don't agree with this statement at all. I'm not a farmer, don't own livestock, don't cut and bale hay etc., but I would sell the MX long before I would sell the M for the simple reason that the M is so much more capable, and it's way more comfortable to run 8 hours a day with a much better cab. The differences become even more apparent when turning the PTO and moving over the ground. I'd consider using the MX to pull the 12ft folding cutter around my friend's property which is almost flat, but it'd be working hard. Heck, in 90F weather it's working hard running a 5ft flail at my friend's place. There's no way that I'd use the MX and folding cutter on my property. The M handles it with ease with so much room for more, but it would be a struggle for the MX.

Another thing to think about is that the MX engine and turbo are maxed out in terms of performance. You can get rid of all of the DPF/EGR crap and will pick up a few hp with less restriction in the exhuast, but there's a lot of potential performance available with the 3.3L engine in the M6060/7060. I opted for a tune that bumps performance from 63.5hp to around 82hp (which includes a 6hp increase due to a much less restrictive exhaust). I could have opted for even more power but 82hp is enough for me.

Ultimately @pandemic326 it's your decision, but I'd be wary of taking advice from people who have zero experience with the equipment that they're advising you against buying. Everyone has an opinion, and I'm no exception, but the trick is to separate the subjective from the objective, and to figure out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't. Many here will paraphrase what they've read and try to pass if off as experience. Make your own decisions, make your own mistakes and learn from them. Oh, and the idea that an M needs bigger and more expensive implements is laughable. The M can use bigger and more expensive implements, but I use the same box blade, land leveler, grapple, buckets, PHD, hydraulic disc harrow, pallet forks, rotarty cutter, trailers and more with both models.

I've bought and used four Kubota tractors over the past nine years, and the only one that I bought based on the advice of someone else (Kubota salesman) was the BX25 which was absolutely not the right choice for me! I bought both MX6000s and the M6060 based entirely on my own decision matrix and they were good choices for me. I did make one mistake and that was buying the MX6000HST (open station) rather than the MX6000HSTC (cabbed model). Because the MX is so much more capable than the BX25 I had no idea that I'd be spending a lot more time on it pulling much bigger cutters around. I had no idea as to how much dust I'd be generating, or how miserable it was going to be wearing a dust mask, googles and ear muffs in 90F weather, all the while being bitten by horse flies and mosquitos.

I'm not going to say that there aren't better choices for me or anyone else since I've never owned an L6060, M7060, M4 or M5, but I'm content with the combination that I have. All I can say as a hilly 20 acre owner is that it's much easier to buy too small than it is to buy too big. Any model from an MX5400 to an M5-111 could work well for you, and perhaps there are some smaller models that could also work, but the chances of you wanting for more or outgrowing your tractor diminish as you move up in size.

Just my opinion as a non-farming owner of an MX6000 and M6060. Good luck with your decision, and I for one applaud the research that you're doing.