Old style PTO shaft compatibility

[airbiscuit]

Measure the diameter of the shaft (green) and give me the length and I'll point you to the shaft you need.

View attachment 146484

From the Herd Parts Manual

It's Weasler PTO

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Option 1:
Best option, direct replacement.

PTO Driveline 1-3/8" 6 Spline x 1" Round Bore 1/4" Keyway Universal | eBay

Replaces PTO Drivelines & Parts OEM Number(s) BP102-1120-A. It may be necessary to cut this driveline to length. Verify the length by ensuring that sufficient overlap of the drive tube exists in all working positions without the possibility of bottoming out.

www.ebay.com

or if this length will work to make it long enough.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/weasler-pto-drive-shaft-271774?store=1959&cid=Google-Shopping-Sustain&utm_medium=Google&utm_source=Shopping&utm_content=Sustain&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAnKi8BhB0EiwA58DA4TcbJyF0HIQh1YWiHb0cb9UmpWpOAg7U2r0esNOkFELW2ce6bGbHlRoCdJkQAvD_BwE

Option 2:
Makes it a 1 3/8 spline on both ends.

https://www.agrisupply.com/pto-adapter/p/38508/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAnKi8BhB0EiwA58DA4Zp8NpBqVOvKpT08wpRQ4iQZRxHK2KkM7EoQs7-BpBtA2gLPKc2q4hoC-JwQAvD_BwE

https://www.agrisupply.com/pto-shaft-series-1-33-in/p/89795/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAnKi8BhB0EiwA58DA4UkEw2KVecq79hIAGIHb7sQORGYuOXVOzvUCCw4FoQKjF3PAuTaI9BoCHNoQAvD_BwE

or

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CDLS6XY2/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0CDLS6XY2&pd_rd_w=qMdk5&content-id=amzn1.sym.f2f1cf8f-cab4-44dc-82ba-0ca811fb90cc&pf_rd_p=f2f1cf8f-cab4-44dc-82ba-0ca811fb90cc&pf_rd_r=9DQXBJ5R4HR3W9KV59TX&pd_rd_wg=buxbh&pd_rd_r=5e39cda4-dd74-4fd2-9139-64de64f75d3f&s=lawn-garden&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM

Option 3:
Will need to drill adapter

Shaft Adapter 1 to 1 3/8" Sleeve Gas Engine Motor | eBay

Adapter to bring a 1" straight shaft to a 1 3/8".

www.ebay.com

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/tool-tuff-direct-pto-driveline-series-4-37-in-length-27-015-1930013?cid=Shopping-Google-Organic_Feed-Product-1930013&srsltid=AfmBOor8yEFT04P7kV5wvzndMIjMLyZTUF0SdhSfo1pgUpx8jhEvcUoZ3FY&gQT=1

 

[Gaspasser]

Thanks gang. Alot of good ideas. Actually warm today (30 degrees F). Driving over to woodlot this morning to measure gearbox shaft diameter. Going to try to remove the spring pin (5/16 x 2) to disconnect spreader side of the PTO shaft. This is necessayr step to whatever solution we come up with. Are spring pins straight or tapered? Just wondering if I can punch out from either side or if they only move one way (tapered). The adventure continues. Thanks again.

 

[Gaspasser]

So gearbox shaft is 1 inch diameter. Tried to punch out spring pin. As you can see from Wolfman's pic with the green arrow, there was a steel wire through the hole presumably added by previous owner. Cut that loose and tried to knock out spring pin with no luck. On one side it appears to be missing. The other side I can see isn't budging with punch and hammer. Besides PB blaster, heating, and continuing to pound on it, any other tricks? Is it a sin to drill it out with the same diameter bit?

So Wolfman, the shaft is 1 inch, required PTO length is approx 34 inches. I know i may have to trim it. Does it make sense to add a 6 spline 1 3/8 male shaft to the 1 inch spreader side shaft and just use a conventional PTO shaft? That way, the PTO shaft may be able to be used (assuming correct length) on other future implements. Or is it better to stick with the original setup and bolt the PTO directly to the spreader shaft? Appreciate all the help.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yes, spring pin (roll pin) has to come out.
Don't use a 'drift', try using a bolt ! If it's a 1/4" roll pin, use a 1/4" bolt, cut the threads off and lighlty make it smaller in diameter. The 'trick' is for it to just fit inside the hole. Hold it with pliers THEN whack with hammer. A good, stout WHACK. The 'idea' is the shock will break up the rust.

if that fails, try drilling the roll pin out, again if 1/4" ,use GOOD, new 1/4" bit. Now it may 'grab' in the spiral of the rollpin, depends upon design of the pin. Pins are 'hardened' but they can be drilled.

Once out, use a few big open ended wrenches as spacers between gear box and Ujoint, insert pickle fork between last wrench and ujoint, see what a few whacks do.....helps to have trained octopus to hold the wrenches.

as always LOTS of oil, heat and patience will help !

 

[Gaspasser]

yes, spring pin (roll pin) has to come out.
Don't use a 'drift', try using a bolt ! If it's a 1/4" roll pin, use a 1/4" bolt, cut the threads off and lighlty make it smaller in diameter. The 'trick' is for it to just fit inside the hole. Hold it with pliers THEN whack with hammer. A good, stout WHACK. The 'idea' is the shock will break up the rust.

if that fails, try drilling the roll pin out, again if 1/4" ,use GOOD, new 1/4" bit. Now it may 'grab' in the spiral of the rollpin, depends upon design of the pin. Pins are 'hardened' but they can be drilled.

Once out, use a few big open ended wrenches as spacers between gear box and Ujoint, insert pickle fork between last wrench and ujoint, see what a few whacks do.....helps to have trained octopus to hold the wrenches.

as always LOTS of oil, heat and patience will help !

Thanks but where am I going to find a store selling a willing octopus in this freezing weather....... at this late hour.......... in space? ( apologies to the writers of Airplane 2).

 

[Russell King]

Thanks but where am I going to find a store selling a willing octopus in this freezing weather....... at this late hour.......... in space? ( apologies to the writers of Airplane 2).

There are tools specifically designed for removing those spring pins. They are called roll pin punch sets and are not expensive. I suggest you get a set in metric and inch sizes since you won’t be able to measure the size of the pin or hole.

And get a good penetrating oil like PB Blaster or anything similar

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I've got several 'roll pin punches' but yeesh, I can find a bolt FASTER and EASIER than trying to find the punches 'in one of the 13 red tool boxes'.....
some jobs you need done, now, and use what you have nearby.
i agree proper tools are best. HATE when people mix metric/imperial cause they're 'close enough'.....

 

[Gaspasser]

Well gang, good news. Following everyone's advice, I was able to get the roll pin out after PB Blaster, torch heating, pounding with bolts and pin punches and of course some carefully chosen words for the occasion. There was some blood shed as well. Then used Greenville's advice of using large adjustable wrenches as pickle forks. Had to heat with torch again whie pounding on the wrenches but got the
Implement end of the PTO to slide off the shaft. So now have 1 inch diameter gearbox shaft with 5/16 hole where the spring pin lives. The hole 'center is 3/4 inch from end of shaft. This hole and spring pin was the only thing holding PTO universal joint to the round shaft.There is no keyway or other means of fixation. Amazing that the spring pin endures all that torque. So Wolfmsn, to your point, the distance between end of sander shaft to end of tractor PTO shaft is 34 inches at the shortest horizontal 3 pt angle. This would be longer at lower angle as when resting on the ground.

So, if I add a 1 inch round to 6 spline 1 3/8 diameter standard male adapter to the spreader shaft, this would allow me to use a standard female to female 6 spline x 1 3/8 generic PT0 shaft. Of course, the adapter would need to be attached with only a 5/16 inch spring pin as there is no keyway on shaft. Do they make something like this?

Otherwise, I'll have to connect the spreader side of the longer PTO directly to the gear shaft as was done by manufacturer. That eliminates the possible use of the PTO shsft on other implements.

Thanks again gang. Making progress on this project, Getting 4-6 inches snow tonight. Hope to get this sander going before spring sets in.

Best regards all...

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Well gang, good news. Following everyone's advice, I was able to get the roll pin out after PB Blaster, torch heating, pounding with bolts and pin punches and of course some carefully chosen words for the occasion. There was some blood shed as well. Then used Greenville's advice of using large adjustable wrenches as pickle forks. Had to heat with torch again whie pounding on the wrenches but got the
Implement end of the PTO to slide off the shaft. So now have 1 inch diameter gearbox shaft with 5/16 hole where the spring pin lives. The hole 'center is 3/4 inch from end of shaft. This hole and spring pin was the only thing holding PTO universal joint to the round shaft.There is no keyway or other means of fixation. Amazing that the spring pin endures all that torque. So Wolfmsn, to your point, the distance between end of sander shaft to end of tractor PTO shaft is 34 inches at the shortest horizontal 3 pt angle. This would be longer at lower angle as when resting on the ground.

So, if I add a 1 inch round to 6 spline 1 3/8 diameter standard male adapter to the spreader shaft, this would allow me to use a standard female to female 6 spline x 1 3/8 generic PT0 shaft. Of course, the adapter would need to be attached with only a 5/16 inch spring pin as there is no keyway on shaft. Do they make something like this?

Otherwise, I'll have to connect the spreader side of the longer PTO directly to the gear shaft as was done by manufacturer. That eliminates the possible use of the PTO shsft on other implements.

Thanks again gang. Making progress on this project, Getting 4-6 inches snow tonight. Hope to get this sander going before spring sets in.

Best regards all...

In Post #22 I listed 3 options with all the parts links:

Old style PTO shaft compatibility

Measure the diameter of the shaft (green) and give me the length and I'll point you to the shaft you need. From the Herd Parts Manual It's Weasler PTO

www.orangetractortalks.com

Option #1 Will just replace that shaft completely or depending on the length, just replace the other end if it will make it long enough.

Option #2 Has the Adapter to make it a 1 3/8 6 spline and the PTO shaft of 1 3/8 6 spline to 1 3/8 6 spline

I don't think you want to go option #3 because you don't have a keyway.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Or you have the original option: take both pieces to your drive shaft shop and tell them you need it x" longer (and a new roll pin).

Edit to add: I'd stick with the roll pin, isn't that protecting the drive train, or is there a belt or clutch?

 

[airbiscuit]

You could also buy a new PTO that was loge enough, and put your Implement Side Yoke on the new shaft to keep everything stock.

Did you determine that this would not give you enough length?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

NICE it came apart, and not in '1,000 pieces' !!!!
Yes, kinda mind boggling the roll pin survives !!
PROGRESS...you gotta be happy !

NO bandaids, right ???

 

[Chanceywd]

A new shaft could also be adapted if it has the same universal joint size/series to the existing end you just removed. I bought one of those u-joint presses years ago and it comes in handy . I recently was making one to fit my WC68. HF sells them, they are just like a big clamp.
https://www.harborfreight.com/ball-joint-service-kit-for-2wd-and-4wd-vehicles-63610.html.
Probably cheaper on ebay. You just use the C and the screw to push the joints after removing clips.

Bill

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I remember breaking a 12T hyd jack in my 'shop press' getting the cups out of the front Ujoints of my '86 F150. Even with the new 20t,sounded like a rifle shot to get the them out.

 

[Gaspasser]

You could also buy a new PTO that was loge enough, and put your Implement Side Yoke on the new shaft to keep everything stock.

Did you determine that this would not give you enough length?
View attachment 146653

Thanks Bisquit. Unfortunatey, not long enough (like my wife says). Thank you for the reply though. Best...

 

[Gaspasser]

NICE it came apart, and not in '1,000 pieces' !!!!
Yes, kinda mind boggling the roll pin survives !!
PROGRESS...you gotta be happy !

NO bandaids, right ???

Yessir! Happy to be making progress and learned a few things.. No bandaids... caught my head on the corner of angle iron frame ..... twice. Clotted right up so no need to cover it. So as to solution, awaiting a callback from tech support at Kasco (Herd). They make a longer OEM version which is 35 inches long. But shaft end to shaft end, I get 34 inches in the shortest angle measurment (PTO and inplement horizontally at same level).. I'm thinking I need a couple inches longer to account for the coupling overlap to reach the circular fillet on the tractor shaft. At this point I think Wolfman's suggestion of using a 1 inch round female to 1 3/8 6 spline male connector adapter would work if I drill a hile in the adapter? The adapter comes with a keyway, whch my shaft does not have, but I could drill a 5/16 hole through the adaptor to secure with spring pin through the hole in the shaft. Then just use conventional PTO shaft with 1 3/8 6 sples female on both ends Looking for a series 4 double ended PTO shaft in the 40 inch range. I could cut down a longer shaft if needed.

I could also rework the oringinal shaft to have it made longer but I am easily an hour away from anyone who does this. Looking for a local or deliverable soultion first.

Thanks again so very much gang. I learn so much on this site and it is greatly appreciated. Stay warm.

 

[Chanceywd]

One thing you might encounter with extending the gear box shaft is you might make the joint angles a little to steep.

 

[Gaspasser]

One thing you might encounter with extending the gear box shaft is you might make the joint angles a little to steep.

I'll watch out for this. Thank you sir!
Best..

 

[Gaspasser]

Ok, so hopefully last post to torture you guys with this subject. AgriSupply sells the adapter (1 inch round shaft to male 6 spline 1 3/8 for the implement shaft. Then will get their PTO shaft (plenty long enough; item number 102246) with female 1 3/8 6 spline on both ends. One end has retractable collar (tractor side) and the other end has a "yoke" connection (implement side). Is it safe to assume that the yoke connection bolts onto the male 1 3/8 6 spline cnnector adapter? The pics do not make it clear and their rep was unable to answer that question for me.