B7100 hard to start

[Brandonallen]

Hello we have a b7100 new style. Just rebuilt, new sleeves, pistons and rings, all bearings, head gaskets. new valves, valve springs, seals etc. Got it all back together and was very hard to start, lots of cranking and bleeding fuel system but finally ran but seemed off. It now starts after 45-60 sec of glowplugs but runs rough with smoke out of tailpipe, won’t throttle up and then dies. I am looking for some advice on troubleshooting this.
So far we have attempted to check the fuel injection timing but this flywheel does not have the FI as stated in the workshop manual? Only TC and 20-0 degree marks. The injection pump has 3 shims one thicker and two thin ones. We removed a thin one and it will not start at all, just coughs a little but no life. Verified glow plugs are good 1 ohm each with 10.6v to them while energized. Valves were adjusted to .009 when engine was assembled. Engine rolls over very smoothly, all dots on the front timing gears were aligned when reassembled. I’m sure I am forgetting info but I am leaning towards a missing shim somehow or valves could need readjusted. Any ideas? Has brand new fuel filter and getting plenty of fuel, no obstructions to pump

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Have you done anything to the injection pump?
Have you done anything to the injectors?
WAs the engine running well before the rebuild?

 

[Brandonallen]

Have you done anything to the injection pump?
Have you done anything to the injectors?
WAs the engine running well before the rebuild?

Engine ran well, just had a crazy amount of blowby. Found broken rings when disassembling. We have not done anything to the injection pump or injectors. Just removed them, sat aside and reinstalled when the time came. Other than removing that one shim for diagnosing purposes to see if it would change anything

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Do a compression test, that will give us some baseline to work with.

 

[Brandonallen]

Do a compression test, that will give us some baseline to work with.

I do not have that adapter for the glow plugs for my compression tester. I will have to order one

 

[Brandonallen]

Do a compression test, that will give us some baseline to work with.

Do you know which adapter I would need? Seems to be a lot of options for the m10x1.25 thread different sealing options at the head

 

[Brandonallen]

I will also say I used the copper gasket spray on one of the shims because I read on a forum that’s good to help them seal from oil leaks and wouldn’t affect timing. If that’s not true I will clean them all off and try again

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I will also say I used the copper gasket spray on one of the shims because I read on a forum that’s good to help them seal from oil leaks and wouldn’t affect timing. If that’s not true I will clean them all off and try again

Copper gasket spray is fine for the shims, I use simple light coat of enamel paint.
I'll have to look at my kit, I normally test in the injectors not the glow plugs.
You don't have to take off the intake to do it.

 

[Brandonallen]

Any chance you know which flywheel mark I should reference for the spill test if there is no “fi” engraved? Is it 25 degrees? And I am fine with checking at injectors I will have to get an adapter Reguardless. My set is for gasoline engines

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Any chance you know which flywheel mark I should reference for the spill test if there is no “fi” engraved? Is it 25 degrees? And I am fine with checking at injectors I will have to get an adapter Reguardless. My set is for gasoline engines

What's the maximum on your gauge? The diesel compression may be over 400 psi.

 

[Brandonallen]

What's the maximum on your gauge? The diesel compression may be over 400 psi.

Actually just made the trip to get a diesel compression tester with both glow plug and injector adapters so I can get accurate compression numbers. Will keep you posted once I get back to the tractor shortly

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Any chance you know which flywheel mark I should reference for the spill test if there is no “fi” engraved? Is it 25 degrees? And I am fine with checking at injectors I will have to get an adapter Reguardless. My set is for gasoline engines

Checking manuals now.

 

[Brandonallen]

I have 300 psi compression on all 3 cylinders. Readjusted all valve lash. Local dealer had a shim in stock .20mm. Installed that it would run initially but die out. Rigged up a fuel bottle above injection pump to bypass the small fuel pump and filter and no change. We ended up removing the return hose to the tank and backing off all 3 nuts that hold the returns to the injectors and running it and it ran longer than it has yet and actually throttled up. So I am guessing maybe the injectors were air locked somehow? I removed the extra shim and put back to the original amount of shims. Seems to run well now and stays running.
Now to clean it all up and figure out where the oil leak is coming from, somewhere up front. Looks like front cover or the front crank seal

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I have 300 psi compression on all 3 cylinders. Readjusted all valve lash. Local dealer had a shim in stock .20mm. Installed that it would run initially but die out. Rigged up a fuel bottle above injection pump to bypass the small fuel pump and filter and no change. We ended up removing the return hose to the tank and backing off all 3 nuts that hold the returns to the injectors and running it and it ran longer than it has yet and actually throttled up. So I am guessing maybe the injectors were air locked somehow? I removed the extra shim and put back to the original amount of shims. Seems to run well now and stays running.
Now to clean it all up and figure out where the oil leak is coming from, somewhere up front. Looks like front cover or the front crank seal

Air locked injectors will make it run really bad.

If the front case seal wasn't exactly right (there are 4 different versions) it will leak, or if any of the three O-rings moved it will leak there.

 

[Brandonallen]

Air locked injectors will make it run really bad.

If the front case seal wasn't exactly right (there are 4 different versions) it will leak, or if any of the three O-rings moved it will leak there.

How does one decipher between the 4 oil seals? We used the one that came with the aftermarket rebuild kit. But we did get oem o rings for the front cover and I held them in place with Dab of rtv while installing front cover so i am assuming they are good. It’s pouring our just a slow drip off the front axle when idling

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

How does one decipher between the 4 oil seals? We used the one that came with the aftermarket rebuild kit. But we did get oem o rings for the front cover and I held them in place with Dab of rtv while installing front cover so i am assuming they are good. It’s pouring our just a slow drip off the front axle when idling

If you can locate the exact spot I can point you in the right direction.
One funny leak that can look like a front crank leak is actually the O-ring seal on the crank behind the race for the main seal.

This is thee gasket that there are mutiple versions of, and one version looks really good but misses a part down by the oil ports.

 

[Brandonallen]

If you can locate the exact spot I can point you in the right direction.
One funny leak that can look like a front crank leak is actually the O-ring seal on the crank behind the race for the main seal.

View attachment 144844

This is thee gasket that there are mutiple versions of, and one version looks really good but misses a part down by the oil ports.

View attachment 144845

Okay I will keep you posted. Had to order a valve cover gasket as it self destructed when removing to readjust the valves yesterday. Then will clean it all off and reassess the oil leak at the front. May have to bite the bullet and get oem front cover gasket, that o ring for the seal race and new seal

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Okay I will keep you posted. Had to order a valve cover gasket as it self destructed when removing to readjust the valves yesterday. Then will clean it all off and reassess the oil leak at the front. May have to bite the bullet and get oem front cover gasket, that o ring for the seal race and new seal

If you didn't replace the crank collar that the seal rides on, that is also a spot that can leak.

 

[Brandonallen]

If you didn't replace the crank collar that the seal rides on, that is also a spot that can leak.

After sitting a couple days it’s doing the same thing again. Starting but running really rough, then stalling. It’s weird because it was running good just the other day, restarting fine and everything. Any ideas? Possibly losing prime?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

After sitting a couple days it’s doing the same thing again. Starting but running really rough, then stalling. It’s weird because it was running good just the other day, restarting fine and everything. Any ideas? Possibly losing prime?

Bottle feed the injection pump again, that will eliminate any fuel delivery issue and give you a better idea where to look.

You said you cracked the overflow line fittings to get it to run the last time, well that step seams rather odd, that normally will not help them start or run any better.

2 things to check.
The fuel level, has it gone down while sitting?
Check the motor oil level, has it gone up while sitting?