Gasoline Particulate Filters

Bmyers

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Just seen the video below and was surprised that the are filters for gasoline particulate filters. I wonder if GPF have the same issues as the DPF?


Didn't realize that the GPF are common requirements throughout Europe.
 

GreensvilleJay

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from Corning ( may the 'glass company ? ) website... 1st hit

They offer consumers better fuel economy without sacrificing engine performance. However, they produce
a high number of fine particulates, such as PM2.5, that impact air quality and human health.

It'd be interesting to hear HOW this filter gives better fuel economy as well as WHY they're allowed ,seeing how they 'impact air quality and human health' !!!!
 
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The Evil Twin

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They are increasingly common on TDI vehicles across the globe. The EPA has decided to make any ICE a pain in the arse to own in hopes we lean to the electric models
 
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jyoutz

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Hopefully the EPA will be DOA next month....;)
Nixon established the EPA to enforce the clean water and air acts. During that time the air was brown and rivers were catching fire due to hazardous industrial waste being dumped into waterways. These laws are why we don’t see those things today.
 
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lugbolt

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Nixon established the EPA to enforce the clean water and air acts. During that time the air was brown and rivers were catching fire due to hazardous industrial waste being dumped into waterways. These laws are why we don’t see those things today.
so are you in favor of forced compliance and forced cost of living increases?

side note: Gale Banks talked about the GPF a couple years ago. Remember the discussion well. His words were "it's coming". I think there's a youtube video now, where some guys including Mr. Banks, are saying 2027 emissions regulations will likely mean GPFs on gas cars, but I don't know if it's USA, California, or Europe.
 

jyoutz

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so are you in favor of forced compliance and forced cost of living increases?

side note: Gale Banks talked about the GPF a couple years ago. Remember the discussion well. His words were "it's coming". I think there's a youtube video now, where some guys including Mr. Banks, are saying 2027 emissions regulations will likely mean GPFs on gas cars, but I don't know if it's USA, California, or Europe.
I’m in favor of air, water, and soil that’s not hazardous to human health. If that’s forced compliance for industry products, so be it. I remember the polluted air in the 1970’s exacerbating my grandfather’s lung condition and hastening his death. Without the clean air and water Acts, there would be no limits on the same conditions returning today.
 
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mikester

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www.divergentstuff.ca
from Corning ( may the 'glass company ? ) website... 1st hit

They offer consumers better fuel economy without sacrificing engine performance. However, they produce
a high number of fine particulates, such as PM2.5, that impact air quality and human health.

It'd be interesting to hear HOW this filter gives better fuel economy as well as WHY they're allowed ,seeing how they 'impact air quality and human health' !!!!
The holy grail of gasoline IC engine design is to try and run close to stoichiometric conditions as possible to reduce emissions from combustion. It's not an ideal reaction chamber inside your cylinders so they need work arounds to make the combustion process work more efficiently. Normally they have to use higher air mixtures to get complete combustion but that leads to more undesirable byproducts.

I'd guess the filter lets them use higher air mixtures because the undesirable combustion byproducts are mitigated by the filter.

Personally I don't miss getting choked by noxious fumes following older cars or getting stuck sitting at stoplights near them.
 
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The Evil Twin

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I’m in favor of air, water, and soil that’s not hazardous to human health. If that’s forced compliance for industry products, so be it. I remember the polluted air in the 1970’s exacerbating my grandfather’s lung condition and hastening his death. Without the clean air and water Acts, there would be no limits on the same conditions returning today.
I get that. But the aor and waterways are so much better now. Why continue to strangle manufacturers and consumers of light duty transportation?
The answer is easy: make ICE vehicles more expensive to operate, maintain and repair in order to make EVs more appealing. It's not about making ICE vehicles cleaner.
 

GreensvilleJay

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re: Normally they have to use higher air mixtures to get complete combustion but that leads to more undesirable byproducts.

Hmm, do you mean they're running the engine 'rich' ( more fuel ) or 'lean' ( more air ). rich would make more junk out the tailepipe, lean engine knocks.

Always though dual spark plugs ( every small plane has them...) was a great idea. Better burns, reliable.

In the end it's really about 'control and coins'.... nothing 'they' do ACTUALLY helps Mother Nature.
 
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jimh406

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The biggest issue with diesel regen seems to be no ability for the consumer to force a regen. If they do a gasoline gpf, hoefully there is a way for the consumer to force a regen.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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hay YOUR machine, YOU can do what you want.
I've programmed PICs to replace M68HC11 based equipment decade ago. Sure it's easier if you stay with the same 'family' but when Motorola shafted me after 30 years, I 'jumped ship'.
 

GreensvilleJay

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I'm north of the 49th.... hehehehehe....
it is a shame what they did to the old dozers and such in the yards in cali though.
 
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jyoutz

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I get that. But the aor and waterways are so much better now. Why continue to strangle manufacturers and consumers of light duty transportation?
The answer is easy: make ICE vehicles more expensive to operate, maintain and repair in order to make EVs more appealing. It's not about making ICE vehicles cleaner.
The original post that created this discussion was the hope of elimination of the EPA. Without enforcement of the clean air and water acts, how long would it be before the dirty 70s returns? Now if we are discussing different ways of achieving clean air and water, then that’s different. But in truth, people are driving vehicles with modern emission technologies every day and most don’t have issues. I know that I never had a problem with my TDI car, and it had regenerations periodically without causing any concerns.
 

lugbolt

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I’m in favor of air, water, and soil that’s not hazardous to human health. If that’s forced compliance for industry products, so be it. I remember the polluted air in the 1970’s exacerbating my grandfather’s lung condition and hastening his death. Without the clean air and water Acts, there would be no limits on the same conditions returning today.
remember you favored that when you price shop cars and gripe about the high cost of the, and the high cost of living.

I can gripe about dirty air too but there is a lot more to it than just cars. I have family who died of lung conditions, specifically my grandmother. I watched her basically drown on her own lung tissue and fluids that were directly related to lung cancer, caused by smoking. However, she didn't smoke a day in her life. Grandpa did, he was a chain smoker. Grandma got cancer and I watched her take her last breaths of air, gasping for every one of them. All thanks to grandpa, who apparently either didn't care or had the same attitude "it's good for me"-without regard to anyone around him. I watched my uncle Steve croak of alcohol. I watched my best friend kill himself with alcohol as well. Watched another friend die due to a drunk driver's negligence. Now I too have some complications, because the place I used to work for didn't have any sort of rules enforcement, letting the guys who worked closeby in the shop smoke. You know there's laws and rules for that but if they're not enforced then there's nothing else you can do buy take yourself away from the situation-which I did. But the damage is done. If you are a smoker, I'd be willing to bet you also don't want your smokes to be banned and/or regulated further because the cost increases, and if you are a drinker, I'd be willing to bet you're not "for" more regulations and a lot stiffer penalties for DWI.
 

jyoutz

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remember you favored that when you price shop cars and gripe about the high cost of the, and the high cost of living.

I can gripe about dirty air too but there is a lot more to it than just cars. I have family who died of lung conditions, specifically my grandmother. I watched her basically drown on her own lung tissue and fluids that were directly related to lung cancer, caused by smoking. However, she didn't smoke a day in her life. Grandpa did, he was a chain smoker. Grandma got cancer and I watched her take her last breaths of air, gasping for every one of them. All thanks to grandpa, who apparently either didn't care or had the same attitude "it's good for me"-without regard to anyone around him. I watched my uncle Steve croak of alcohol. I watched my best friend kill himself with alcohol as well. Watched another friend die due to a drunk driver's negligence. Now I too have some complications, because the place I used to work for didn't have any sort of rules enforcement, letting the guys who worked closeby in the shop smoke. You know there's laws and rules for that but if they're not enforced then there's nothing else you can do buy take yourself away from the situation-which I did. But the damage is done. If you are a smoker, I'd be willing to bet you also don't want your smokes to be banned and/or regulated further because the cost increases, and if you are a drinker, I'd be willing to bet you're not "for" more regulations and a lot stiffer penalties for DWI.
I don’t smoke, but I don’t care if people do it away from me. I’m glad that smoking is no longer permitted in restaurants and other public places. I do enjoy a drink after dinner. After suffering a near fatal accident for myself and family 20 years ago at the hands of a drunk driver, I’m ok with the stiff penalties for DUI we have today compared to 20 years ago.
 
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mikester

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re: Normally they have to use higher air mixtures to get complete combustion but that leads to more undesirable byproducts.

Hmm, do you mean they're running the engine 'rich' ( more fuel ) or 'lean' ( more air ). rich would make more junk out the tailepipe, lean engine knocks.

Always though dual spark plugs ( every small plane has them...) was a great idea. Better burns, reliable.

In the end it's really about 'control and coins'.... nothing 'they' do ACTUALLY helps Mother Nature.
There's a lot of black magic and foo foo and arguments over what's better - swirl, tumble, blah blah blah

Kind of like arguing over what is the fastest color. Red. If you paint flames on the side you go quicker too.