L3301 HST quit running at idle
- Thread starter USGrant
- Start date
Russell King
Well-known member
Equipment
L185F, Modern Ag Competitor 4’ shredder, Rhino tiller, rear dirt scoop
When you used the “jumped terminals on starter” method and got sparks…
What terminals did you use? What sparked? (I assume one of the terminals did).
You will need to methodically test things so the starter will turn the engine. I would agree to remove the starter and battery and have them tested at a parts store if they are easy to remove and get to a shop.
What terminals did you use? What sparked? (I assume one of the terminals did).
You will need to methodically test things so the starter will turn the engine. I would agree to remove the starter and battery and have them tested at a parts store if they are easy to remove and get to a shop.
Take a test light and put it on the big red wire on the alternator and see if it has power. You can call me @ 904-813-4740. My name is John Reed. I'm a wiring specialist and have built lots of damaged and burned Kubota's. I will try to explain several tests to help you figure out the problem.
Thanks to you and all who have been assisting.
Jumped Terminal on starter that is connected to battery to terminal on solenoid. Terminal connected to battery sparked. I am going to try to tow the tractor closer to my shop.
Thanks to all of you for your experience and advice. Thx to John for his phone number and the call.
I have ordered a new starter. As we discussed on the phone, it may be that it stayed engaged while I operated the tractor (20 minutes or so), thus the mechanical grinding noise when it finally overheated and quit, and tripping the 40A breaker, which would take a lot to trip. Yes, the air filter canister was a separate “red herring” issue.
I managed a Kubota dealership in NH back in the mid-90s. All the techs who were there are now gone, so I’d be just another yahoo trying to get free advice if I called. Anyway, I understood all you guys said but definitely needed your help and input. Thank you. The fat lady ain’t sung yet, but I’ll let you know how it goes once the starter comes and I install it.
Much obliged.
Dave (Usgrant)
Please do tell us the final fix when your issue is resolved. I have a L3301 with 475 hrs and have never had any problems, thankfully so far.
I will print your fix and file in my book for future reference.
rr
Your battery voltage is low, you might have some cooked cells. Try trickle charging to see if it improves
Do what you like, but I’d recommend you do not post your number. (Might want to delete that portion). Just so you know there is a private message feature where you can email to members that is private from a thread. If you click on their name you will see a button to start a conversation.
fried1765
Well-known member
Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
I’ll try it. The starter with loader attached is very hard to get to. If I don’t have to take it off, all the better, but the noise it made before the tractor quit makes me think it’s the starter.
Most starters, including almost all of the newish kubota's use a overrun clutch on them. So after the engine starts, it lets the gear spin faster than the shaft that it's attached to, which significantly reduces the possibility of both a stuck gear, and also a failed starter due to it being stuck "engaged". The overrun also helps force the drive pinion back into the starter housing be design. To compare, some of the cheap imported starters don't have a properly functioning overrun on them-which is one reason they're cheap. OEM Denso starters all do, to my knowledge.
major reasoning behind using the overrun feature is that on gear reduction starters, the motor armature might spin 10,000 RPM, but the gear reduction might only turn the pinion gear 2500 RPM. This increases the torque on the pinion and thus on the flywheel, compared to a direct drive starter (where the pinion is attached directly to the starter armature). The downside to a gear reduction is that when the engine starts, the flywheel speed increases dramatically-from about 200 RPM to roughly 1000. The starter's internal gear reduction will then increase the armature speed from the example, 10,000 RPM to, say, 25,000 RPM--and that kind of increase is hard on the armature. And bearings/bushings. And brushes. Thus the overrun allows the pinion gear to increase speed faster than the armature, while also giving the pinion gear a way to be forced out of mesh with the flywheel, both significantly increasing the life of the starter while still being able to apply more torque to the flywheel.
major reasoning behind using the overrun feature is that on gear reduction starters, the motor armature might spin 10,000 RPM, but the gear reduction might only turn the pinion gear 2500 RPM. This increases the torque on the pinion and thus on the flywheel, compared to a direct drive starter (where the pinion is attached directly to the starter armature). The downside to a gear reduction is that when the engine starts, the flywheel speed increases dramatically-from about 200 RPM to roughly 1000. The starter's internal gear reduction will then increase the armature speed from the example, 10,000 RPM to, say, 25,000 RPM--and that kind of increase is hard on the armature. And bearings/bushings. And brushes. Thus the overrun allows the pinion gear to increase speed faster than the armature, while also giving the pinion gear a way to be forced out of mesh with the flywheel, both significantly increasing the life of the starter while still being able to apply more torque to the flywheel.
It seems it should be amenable to logical trouble shooting.
The fact it quit while running is interesting, but perhaps is as simple as the fuse blew then it stopped.
The question is why it won't crank at all at the moment. Once it's cranking, then the question is whether it will start.
If you jumped directly to the starter from your current tractor battery, but it didn't crank, then one of the following needs to be true:
If something else were stopping it from cranking, you could probably tell by hand cranking on the flywheel, as someone earlier suggested. I've never done that, but it seems a sensible check.
You have a new starter on the way, I probably would have tried the other options first because they're cheaper, but once you have the new starter may as well try installing it to see if that resolves the problem.
The fact it quit while running is interesting, but perhaps is as simple as the fuse blew then it stopped.
The question is why it won't crank at all at the moment. Once it's cranking, then the question is whether it will start.
If you jumped directly to the starter from your current tractor battery, but it didn't crank, then one of the following needs to be true:
- You didn't jump it correctly. I have no idea how you did it, and I'm not saying you did it wrong, just saying it's a possibility
- The battery you jumped from didn't have enough charge
- The starter is not functioning well
- Something else is stopping it from cranking, even though the battery and the starter are fine
If something else were stopping it from cranking, you could probably tell by hand cranking on the flywheel, as someone earlier suggested. I've never done that, but it seems a sensible check.
You have a new starter on the way, I probably would have tried the other options first because they're cheaper, but once you have the new starter may as well try installing it to see if that resolves the problem.
fried1765
Well-known member
Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Great info! This is the level of detail I like.
I had jumped from the battery to the starter post - no luck. Battery trickle-charged to 12.8V by this morning - no luck. Given the mechanical rattling sound before it quit, and the puff of whitish smoke from that area (I was still behind the tractor when it did that), I am pretty sure it was a catastrophic starter failure as described recently in the thread, and that blew the 40A fuse, stopping the engine.
I will give this more thought this afternoon and re-read all this helpful info. Thanks and stay tuned.
I had jumped from the battery to the starter post - no luck. Battery trickle-charged to 12.8V by this morning - no luck. Given the mechanical rattling sound before it quit, and the puff of whitish smoke from that area (I was still behind the tractor when it did that), I am pretty sure it was a catastrophic starter failure as described recently in the thread, and that blew the 40A fuse, stopping the engine.
I will give this more thought this afternoon and re-read all this helpful info. Thanks and stay tuned.
PS - will try external battery sources a jump alternative, but jumping from my truck was actually my first reflex and it didn’t work. Just can’t remember if I did that before or after discovering and replacing the 40A blown fuse. Best try it again…
ONE MORE……..
It’s a bear getting the starter off. I can work around the loader, but there is some kind of either coolant, hydraulic or electrical conduit plumbing running right across the side next to it, terminating in a large nut in front of the hydraulic dip stick. I don’t want to remove this without knowing what is in it (such as pressure). Does anyone know what this tubing is? The WSM is not clear on this.