Front Axle b2920

[KDwyle]

So the second time loose bolts have caused me headaches. The two bolts that hold the back side of the front axle worked totally out before I could realize an issue (the wheels would not turn)... Working in the dark didn't help either. However, I dumped the 'full' load of dirt and jacked the tractor where it sits. Getting new bolts is not the problem. The amount of separation of the front and back seals, etc. do concern me. Just raising the axle back up seems like I might cause more issues. I don't know how critical it is to have each of the gears mesh in the proper slots. And I don't understand what the bolt protruding from the endcap has to do with its operation. The following pics show the separation. Thanks

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You need to pull it all apart and check it for damaged bushings and seals.

The bolt on the front of the front carrier is for adjusting lash of the pivot point.
It's to remove slop front to rear.

The rear cover needs to be moved back to check the propeller shaft collar, it's very likely broken.
you need to reinstall or replace the missing O-ring that goes in the slot on the cover.

The bolt (blue) on the front pushes on the plate (040) behind it to set the tolerance on the pivot point.

You need to remove it all and check the bushings and O-rings (yellow)

 

[BAP]

Use some Blue Locktite on the bolts when you put them back together to keep them from loosening up again, particularly if you have been having problems keeping them tight.

 

[KDwyle]

Thanks so much guys. Your descriptions are quire valuable. I stopped immediately, but my big mistake was to raise the tractor with the loader so I could get under to find the issue. However, I have been able to carefully jack it all back up in place, heard/felt the gears mess and the steering works. Thought I was lucky until I realized the Oring on the cover had come off and into the case (may be able to retrieve, but not likely to be without some damage. The cover does not slide back into position. I don't know yet if it is jammed and will attempt to see if it is moveable. (Can't work very long upside down and in 95°).
However, a big problem I believe is that one of the bolt (30m) holes is stripped in the plate. The reason for such short bolts is due to the fact there is hardly any clearance above before hitting the oil pan. So even if I tap it, I'm not sure how well it will hold. And how the original bolts even came is beyond me. The bracket is also threaded and the bolts, even disconnected from the plate should have been hanging there. Just got a storm, but will look again tomorrow. The bolts won't arrive for a few days anyway. I'm not sure I am comfortable disconnecting everything as the service manual is quite vague. Thanks again.

 

[KDwyle]

You need to pull it all apart and check it for damaged bushings and seals.

The bolt on the front of the front carrier is for adjusting lash of the pivot point.
It's to remove slop front to rear.

The rear cover needs to be moved back to check the propeller shaft collar, it's very likely broken.
you need to reinstall or replace the missing O-ring that goes in the slot on the cover.

View attachment 130799


The bolt (blue) on the front pushes on the plate (040) behind it to set the tolerance on the pivot point.

You need to remove it all and check the bushings and O-rings (yellow)
View attachment 130801

So to sum up for now, you guys were quite correct (I assumed as much). After figuring out the restriction on the cover over the bevel shaft, I found the drive shaft had snapped inside the linkage (pics). Without further investigation save spinning the wheels to see if any axle or pinion bevels had failed (I don't think so), I am going to send it out to the repair shop. As I stated, it is a project I could likely repair myself. But I just don't know what specialty tools or other issues I may run into... nor how many bolts I would have to keep track of when dropping the axle.
So I have a few relevant questions. 1.So once I support the axle case, can I move the tractor in 2 wheel drive to load it on my trailer? 2. Should I remove the backhoe? Its never been off the framed connections. 3. Should I disconnect the loader? Again, never been off. I know the DIY would be so much cheaper, but if I have to disconnect these implements, will it even be easier in the long run... ?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

So to sum up for now, you guys were quite correct (I assumed as much). After figuring out the restriction on the cover over the bevel shaft, I found the drive shaft had snapped inside the linkage (pics). Without further investigation save spinning the wheels to see if any axle or pinion bevels had failed (I don't think so), I am going to send it out to the repair shop. As I stated, it is a project I could likely repair myself. But I just don't know what specialty tools or other issues I may run into... nor how many bolts I would have to keep track of when dropping the axle.
So I have a few relevant questions. 1.So once I support the axle case, can I move the tractor in 2 wheel drive to load it on my trailer? 2. Should I remove the backhoe? Its never been off the framed connections. 3. Should I disconnect the loader? Again, never been off. I know the DIY would be so much cheaper, but if I have to disconnect these implements, will it even be easier in the long run... ?

Yes removing the FEL and the BH will make it easier for the shop to work on the tractor, but really not required.

The front axle is fairly simple and there really isn't any special tools required to disassemble and repair it.

 

[KDwyle]

Yes removing the FEL and the BH will make it easier for the shop to work on the tractor, but really not required.

The front axle is fairly simple and there really isn't any special tools required to disassemble and repair it.

Are you saying that I can replace the shaft without having to drop the axle case? Would I not need tools to measure the backlash when reinstalling? Or do I not have to mess with the pinion and front bevel while just replacing the drive shaft and coupling? I will look at that option to see what obstructions may be in my way. I forgot the pics, so here they are. It snapped so cleanly on the rear shaft, you cannot tell it broke and no spline on any part stripped out. If they had a longer linkage, that would fix it.
And fyi, when bolts loosened up in the backhoe framing along the motor, a too long bolt actually punctured the motor case. That hole was 1/2" and located behind the tractor frame plate. I eventually had to take popcycle sticks to spread JB Weld in a very restrictive <1/2" space along the 4" frame plate. Then I just prayed it would seal. It has for two years, but not loose bolts get me again. And I actually went around the entire frame of the tractor checking on loose bolts at the start of this season. Should have crawled under and maybe would have caught this problem. But as I state prior, at 73 it is not all that easy to get down, well actually that happens often... hehe But it is the getting back up that takes its toll... haha Thanks again for the help. I will consider taking it on because you never know how long the shops will take and I hate missing the good weather season for repairs.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Post a picture of the shaft break please.
If the break is on the propeller shaft side and not the pinion or transmission case side it's an easy at home repair.

Front Half:

Rear Half:

 

[KDwyle]

Thanks. Yes it is on the propeller shaft. So you have convinced me to give it a shot. As suspected I will have to remove the bottom plate from the frame. With locktite on the bolts (part of the hole in the motor issue), I will need to take the tractor up to my garage to access air tools. If I support the front axle case, can I drive it up the hill in 2 wheel drive without damaging anything else?

When looking to buy the shaft, they all list it twice with two different numbers 6C300-57622 and 6C300-57620 at the same price. One place lists it twice with the same number. So are they the same exact item, but I only need one? FYI

 

[KDwyle]

Again, thank you so much for your help. The only thing broken was the link from the pinion to the propeller shaft. I take it that is its purpose to protect the other shafts. Assuming everything goes back together without incident, all will be good. And I had no problem driving the tractor in 2wh up to the garage. I can now feel much more comfortable with tackling these problems.

 

[KDwyle]

Again, thank you so much for your help. The only thing broken was the link from the pinion to the propeller shaft. I take it that is its purpose to protect the other shafts. Assuming everything goes back together without incident, all will be good. And I had no problem driving the tractor in 2wh up to the garage. I can now feel much more comfortable with tackling these problems.

You need to pull it all apart and check it for damaged bushings and seals.

The bolt on the front of the front carrier is for adjusting lash of the pivot point.
It's to remove slop front to rear.

The rear cover needs to be moved back to check the propeller shaft collar, it's very likely broken.
you need to reinstall or replace the missing O-ring that goes in the slot on the cover.

View attachment 130799


The bolt (blue) on the front pushes on the plate (040) behind it to set the tolerance on the pivot point.

You need to remove it all and check the bushings and O-rings (yellow)
View attachment 130801

I really appreciate your advice. So instead of a new post, I will ask here. I had everything back together. The pinion did not line up automatically. But after finding the correct position by moving the backlash bolt along with unknown axle movement, I heard it sync in place and the bracket aligned perfectly. But while awaiting the new parts or while installing (?) it got out of alignment after tapping the bolt hole and screwing it up tight (literally). Too many over 100° days. I have ignorant questions. I have backed the bolts out, moved the backlash bolt and attempted to manipulate the axle without letting it drop all the way out to no avail. After the install the front wheels would turn and lock in about a 1/10 of a full turn. Feeling it was putting pressure on the pinion gear, I decided to raise the entire tractor and turn the wheels by hand. I am not sure this is the best way to tell if the rear wheels turn both front wheels in 4wh drive. They seem to turn freely off the ground.
So turning the back tire spins the opposite side in reverse and the same for the front when in 2wh. But some times spinning the front wheel turns the other in reverse even in 4wh. However, both fronts turn in the correct direction when I apply the forward or reverse pedals with the engine on. If I have yet to break any other part, I'd like to know if the wheel action is correct. I assume no weight on the wheels makes a difference in their operation. The propeller shaft, link and pinion shaft all seem quite tight front to back. I would think there should be some play at the point of the link. It is what I don't know about what should be a normal condition that is making me so cautious. I am glad I was able to get to this point, but just need a little more suggestion to get to the finishline. I thought by taking all the weight off the axle, spinning the wheels, moving the axle and the backlash bolt would allow it to align again.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I really appreciate your advice. So instead of a new post, I will ask here. I had everything back together. The pinion did not line up automatically. But after finding the correct position by moving the backlash bolt along with unknown axle movement, I heard it sync in place and the bracket aligned perfectly. But while awaiting the new parts or while installing (?) it got out of alignment after tapping the bolt hole and screwing it up tight (literally). Too many over 100° days. I have ignorant questions. I have backed the bolts out, moved the backlash bolt and attempted to manipulate the axle without letting it drop all the way out to no avail. After the install the front wheels would turn and lock in about a 1/10 of a full turn. Feeling it was putting pressure on the pinion gear, I decided to raise the entire tractor and turn the wheels by hand. I am not sure this is the best way to tell if the rear wheels turn both front wheels in 4wh drive. They seem to turn freely off the ground.
So turning the back tire spins the opposite side in reverse and the same for the front when in 2wh. But some times spinning the front wheel turns the other in reverse even in 4wh. However, both fronts turn in the correct direction when I apply the forward or reverse pedals with the engine on. If I have yet to break any other part, I'd like to know if the wheel action is correct. I assume no weight on the wheels makes a difference in their operation. The propeller shaft, link and pinion shaft all seem quite tight front to back. I would think there should be some play at the point of the link. It is what I don't know about what should be a normal condition that is making me so cautious. I am glad I was able to get to this point, but just need a little more suggestion to get to the finishline. I thought by taking all the weight off the axle, spinning the wheels, moving the axle and the backlash bolt would allow it to align again.

To check if it's right:
Put all the tires on the ground and lift one front tire at a time with it in 4wd and not running.
You should not be able to turn anything, do the other side should be the same.
lift both fronts off the ground, one should turn one direction and the other should turn the other direction.
Now in 2wd lifting one tire should spin, and the drive shaft should spin same with other side.
lifting both fronts in 2wd will give random results.

 

[KDwyle]

To check if it's right:
Put all the tires on the ground and lift one front tire at a time with it in 4wd and not running.
You should not be able to turn anything, do the other side should be the same.
lift both fronts off the ground, one should turn one direction and the other should turn the other direction.
Now in 2wd lifting one tire should spin, and the drive shaft should spin same with other side.
lifting both fronts in 2wd will give random results.

What I lack in skill, experience and knowledge, I make up for with tenacity. I followed the instructions for wheel movements and now can’t read my own notes. But the left wheel still would not spin freely (catch), but locked in 4wh. On first assembly, the back axle support bracket would not align, so I decided to go back to square one and see if I could get lucky again (had it aligned once). However, I ended up at square minus one. I removed frame, propeller shaft (thought it may be putting pressure on the pinion), loosened bracket bolts. Regardless of how loose I made the axle, it would not change attitude (felt like it was tilted). Ended up with the axle free and floating after falling out of the front bracket. But that allowed for close inspection. I wiped off the brackets and found a small minor strip of copper in the front bracket grease that had come off the edge of the bushing. Nothing appears wrong with the back side bracket and from the diagrams, I don’t believe any part was lost when it first broke in the field.

I decided to post photos here for others since I cannot find any pics online. Apparently not a normal problem.

But placing the back bracket on the free floating axle and no existential pressures, the alignment was still not correct. Upon further inspection, I found the nut retaining the bearings has been purposely altered to lock in place or was somehow damaged (can’t imagine how it happened). So is it normal or could it be my problem?

It looks like a specialty tool if from the factory.


Then in the following photo, I found something to inspect further when I return in a couple of weeks. Could be a crack or just a streak of grease?

Last query, how does that backlash bolt against that plate function? I just don’t understand the physics unless the gear cavity is completely full of grease and the plate puts hydraulic presser on the gears? I thought there would be other parts inside the front bracket. I did inspect all of the gears I could view and none are broken and have very little wear. I made the highly reflective metal black to view easier.


NOTE: The front left axle does have a little slop/play when pushing directly in and out of the axle case. The right axle has none. I figured this is normal and found all gear movements smoothly turn. I can even turn the raised wheel turning the pinion shaft by hand. Hoping I don't have to disassemble the axle. It is quite difficult for me to manipulate the axle and my eyesight lacks, not to mention my short term memory. Thanks

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The dent on the nut is called staking a nut, it keeps the nut from backing off, it's the right way to do it.
None of what your showing would have anything to do with the wheels not turning properly.
The back lash bolt on the front does nothing for the gears it sets the back lash of the axle case nothing more.