rtv-xg850 even worse

truckfixer

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rtv-xg850sl
May 2, 2023
38
8
8
Cusick WA
threw plugs at it and it's even worse, it's sitting in a snow bank because I couldn't even move it to plow so it can be in timeout with the crappy truck.
anyways since mine is a 2018 with 40 hours and has issues with its engine it seems like it's part of the issue all of these have which on my motor Is timing and injector related
 
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Mowbizz

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Bx25d
Aug 19, 2021
513
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New Hampshire
Wow! I can’t believe these Kubota utvs are so crappy. I guess I’ll be going with Polaris or Kawasaki in my next purchase!
 
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truckfixer

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rtv-xg850sl
May 2, 2023
38
8
8
Cusick WA
Wow! I can’t believe these Kubota utvs are so crappy. I guess I’ll be going with Polaris or Kawasaki in my next purchase!
go with a honda 3 wheeler, at least you can go fast enough to do some damage with that, or tow a single peanut
 
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85Hokie

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threw plugs at it and it's even worse, it's sitting in a snow bank because I couldn't even move it to plow so it can be in timeout with the crappy truck.
anyways since mine is a 2018 with 40 hours and has issues with its engine it seems like it's part of the issue all of these have which on my motor Is timing and injector related
Lets start at the top..........

you have one of these?

1707836705705.png


And - it is is/was not running well?

AND you replaced the plugs?

WHAT did/does it do before parked - in other words - give us the background of the last time(S) it was running and when it started running poorly.
 

truckfixer

Member

Equipment
rtv-xg850sl
May 2, 2023
38
8
8
Cusick WA
Lets start at the top..........

you have one of these?

View attachment 122340

And - it is is/was not running well?

AND you replaced the plugs?

WHAT did/does it do before parked - in other words - give us the background of the last time(S) it was running and when it started running poorly.
I have another thread but I'll sum it up, it got pulled off a trailer after a move and was fine for a few days of normal use but started not going above 30 anymore which I had attributed to the CVT belt wearing funny but the engine started pinging and running worse and worse and when floored backfired out of the exhaust (yes through the arrester) which was the only way it would stay running at all, I took injectors apart cleaned it all and put it back together with tested known good coils and hotter plugs and it made 0 difference other than I got worse fuel economy now, the entire time this thing has reeked of being extremely lean and nothing helped fix that including adding extra fuel (brake clean since it started my international)
 
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truckfixer

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Equipment
rtv-xg850sl
May 2, 2023
38
8
8
Cusick WA
Lets start at the top..........

you have one of these?

View attachment 122340

And - it is is/was not running well?

AND you replaced the plugs?

WHAT did/does it do before parked - in other words - give us the background of the last time(S) it was running and when it started running poorly.
should also mention it's oil has smelled like fuel but never put any significant amount in somehow
 
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GreensvilleJay

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there's the other thread about one with the Subaru engine in it, 4-5 pages long...Reading is NOT for the 'faint of heart'.....but you should read it.
 
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Sidekick

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Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
550
486
63
N.Y,
Mine stinks of ra
I have another thread but I'll sum it up, it got pulled off a trailer after a move and was fine for a few days of normal use but started not going above 30 anymore which I had attributed to the CVT belt wearing funny but the engine started pinging and running worse and worse and when floored backfired out of the exhaust (yes through the arrester) which was the only way it would stay running at all, I took injectors apart cleaned it all and put it back together with tested known good coils and hotter plugs and it made 0 difference other than I got worse fuel economy now, the entire time this thing has reeked of being extremely lean and nothing helped fix that including adding extra fuel (brake clean since it started my international)
mine stinks of raw gas when running also. It sucks a ton of fuel for a small low powered machine. It appears that more and more problems are popping up as some see more hours. Mine did a backfire pop when plowing once but I think it is related to the shifter switch momentarily loosing contact. When moved from R to L many times the L indicator lit up and it was in gear then when I stepped on it the l flashed off making it stumble and then flashed back on causing a backfire before moving.
Did you check the intake for mice? There is no good troubleshooting info on this motor I am finding.
Mine is a 22 with 28 hours and I am afraid to drive it with the contamination.
 

Sidekick

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Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
550
486
63
N.Y,
go with a honda 3 wheeler, at least you can go fast enough to do some damage with that, or tow a single peanut
I had a friend get killed on one. Got it for his birthday, took off across a farm field and the front wheel dropped some in a woodchuck hole. Flipped and snapped his neck killing him instantly and he wasn't going very fast. I definitely wouldn't recommend one after seeing that occur.
 

truckfixer

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Equipment
rtv-xg850sl
May 2, 2023
38
8
8
Cusick WA
there's the other thread about one with the Subaru engine in it, 4-5 pages long...Reading is NOT for the 'faint of heart'.....but you should read it.
I did, i had raised an issue with the 2018 honda/ subaru motor (starter is off of an Africa twin as are a few other random parts) almost a year ago now and kept getting told it was the seat belt or I was using It wrong so its a tad bit annoying now that everyone knows the engine is junk
 

truckfixer

Member

Equipment
rtv-xg850sl
May 2, 2023
38
8
8
Cusick WA
Mine stinks of ra

mine stinks of raw gas when running also. It sucks a ton of fuel for a small low powered machine. It appears that more and more problems are popping up as some see more hours. Mine did a backfire pop when plowing once but I think it is related to the shifter switch momentarily loosing contact. When moved from R to L many times the L indicator lit up and it was in gear then when I stepped on it the l flashed off making it stumble and then flashed back on causing a backfire before moving.
Did you check the intake for mice? There is no good troubleshooting info on this motor I am finding.
Mine is a 22 with 28 hours and I am afraid to drive it with the contamination.
yeah I changed my oil at 20 hours when I bought this second hand should have been a sign that he got rid of it with no hours on it I guess, just change your oil so you don't wreck the bottom end and adjust your gear position sensor, and my intake is perfectly clean seeing as I had to remove it all to actually inspect the engine
 

lugbolt

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ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
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spark arrestor plugged?

Pull the belt and measure it's width? And for hourglassing? Hourglassing is very common on CVT's, due to folks using them for tractors and such. Machine sits still, clutch engages and puts a bunch of friction and heat in one spot, narrows the belt in that ONE spot. When this happens, on some machines it causes the crankshaft speed to flucuate, which causes (A) the engine to run weird and (B) throws a check engine light, a misfire code, and occasionally might go into limp mode. This is done because they have a catalyst built into the muffler, so the ecu is programmed such that when it 'sees' a 'misfire' (whether it really is or not), it doesn't keep pouring raw fuel into the catalyst, which burns it up. It will actually melt the cat. On this note, on all cvt equipped machines, low gear is your primary gear when you are below about 20mph. High is just your road gear. It's nothing like a truck where you're in high all the time until you need more pulling power; it's actually opposite-low being your primary gear. Using low will drastically reduce the loads placed on the drive belt.

Not saying that the belt IS your issue, but I did want to point that out for those that may not have known.

and, you can't go by smell because newer engines are totally different. Smell means nothing anymore. Don't rely on it, at all. The catalyst in the muffler changes that smell, as do a lot of other things. And yes almost everything has a catalyst inside the muffler nowdays. Mowers too in some cases. In the old days you could kind of gauge how the mixture was by the smell, but that's not the case with ANY EFI stuff anymore. I don't care how 'good' you think you are, I can almost guarantee you that an EFI engine that "smells" right to us old timers, is rich or has retarded timing-or both. Just as an example, my old car-carbureted 302 ford, it smells normal, and it runs normal. To me. On my EFI car, also a 302, but has cats (factory EFI), if I go in and adjust the mixture via computer to smell like the old one? It's lambda is around .80. 1.00 is stoich. .80 is rich. Also on EFI stuff, your ignition timing can be whatever the ecu wants it to be. At idle, it wouldn't surprise me to see it at 40 degrees or so, and it might be different for each cylinder (polaris is definitely different for each cyl). LH cyl might be at 10 deg, RH might be 4 deg, at idle, simultaneously. My car? Factory EFI, at idle, varies between 30 and 45 degrees. It uses timing to maintain the engine idle speed. At cruise it is sometimes 45-50 deg.

This is where Kubota doesn't have a lot of good data log software (or didn't when I was with the kubota dealer) to actually watch what's going on in the EFI system. On our polaris stuff we can see everything in real time via digital wrench; and from there "usually" we can see what the issue is. If MAP is real high, we know that the valve clearance may be off, or the throttle blade is open too far, or perhaps there is an intake tract leak. Majority of the time it's an intake leak. Similar on Yamaha stuff, with their software you can see what's going on. Kawasaki's stuff was kind of poor at the time but I understand they finally fixed that, but does the dealer have access to it? That is the question. Kubota didn't have a lot decent software to watch the sidekick's efi at the time, which I asked about and didn't get much answer to. I hope they've addressed that, because if you work on EFI stuff, you NEED the data to diagnose. If you don't have that or access to it, you're just guessing-and some techs, that's all they can do is guess because they don't have access to the data.

The OEM EFI software viewing stuff is EXPENSIVE, and some dealers don't buy it. It's auto-shipped in a lot of cases, but the dealer gets billed for it (usually), and sometimes (like in the case of the kubota dealer I was at--that also had yamaha and kawasaki), they'd get it-then get the bill, and send it back. It's expensive up front, and then you have to pay for a license renewal every so often-typically every year, and that's $500 or so I think, billed to the dealer.
 
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Sidekick

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Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
550
486
63
N.Y,
spark arrestor plugged?

Pull the belt and measure it's width? And for hourglassing? Hourglassing is very common on CVT's, due to folks using them for tractors and such. Machine sits still, clutch engages and puts a bunch of friction and heat in one spot, narrows the belt in that ONE spot. When this happens, on some machines it causes the crankshaft speed to flucuate, which causes (A) the engine to run weird and (B) throws a check engine light, a misfire code, and occasionally might go into limp mode. This is done because they have a catalyst built into the muffler, so the ecu is programmed such that when it 'sees' a 'misfire' (whether it really is or not), it doesn't keep pouring raw fuel into the catalyst, which burns it up. It will actually melt the cat. On this note, on all cvt equipped machines, low gear is your primary gear when you are below about 20mph. High is just your road gear. It's nothing like a truck where you're in high all the time until you need more pulling power; it's actually opposite-low being your primary gear. Using low will drastically reduce the loads placed on the drive belt.

Not saying that the belt IS your issue, but I did want to point that out for those that may not have known.

and, you can't go by smell because newer engines are totally different. Smell means nothing anymore. Don't rely on it, at all. The catalyst in the muffler changes that smell, as do a lot of other things. And yes almost everything has a catalyst inside the muffler nowdays. Mowers too in some cases. In the old days you could kind of gauge how the mixture was by the smell, but that's not the case with ANY EFI stuff anymore. I don't care how 'good' you think you are, I can almost guarantee you that an EFI engine that "smells" right to us old timers, is rich or has retarded timing-or both. Just as an example, my old car-carbureted 302 ford, it smells normal, and it runs normal. To me. On my EFI car, also a 302, but has cats (factory EFI), if I go in and adjust the mixture via computer to smell like the old one? It's lambda is around .80. 1.00 is stoich. .80 is rich. Also on EFI stuff, your ignition timing can be whatever the ecu wants it to be. At idle, it wouldn't surprise me to see it at 40 degrees or so, and it might be different for each cylinder (polaris is definitely different for each cyl). LH cyl might be at 10 deg, RH might be 4 deg, at idle, simultaneously. My car? Factory EFI, at idle, varies between 30 and 45 degrees. It uses timing to maintain the engine idle speed. At cruise it is sometimes 45-50 deg.

This is where Kubota doesn't have a lot of good data log software (or didn't when I was with the kubota dealer) to actually watch what's going on in the EFI system. On our polaris stuff we can see everything in real time via digital wrench; and from there "usually" we can see what the issue is. If MAP is real high, we know that the valve clearance may be off, or the throttle blade is open too far, or perhaps there is an intake tract leak. Majority of the time it's an intake leak. Similar on Yamaha stuff, with their software you can see what's going on. Kawasaki's stuff was kind of poor at the time but I understand they finally fixed that, but does the dealer have access to it? That is the question. Kubota didn't have a lot decent software to watch the sidekick's efi at the time, which I asked about and didn't get much answer to. I hope they've addressed that, because if you work on EFI stuff, you NEED the data to diagnose. If you don't have that or access to it, you're just guessing-and some techs, that's all they can do is guess because they don't have access to the data.

The OEM EFI software viewing stuff is EXPENSIVE, and some dealers don't buy it. It's auto-shipped in a lot of cases, but the dealer gets billed for it (usually), and sometimes (like in the case of the kubota dealer I was at--that also had yamaha and kawasaki), they'd get it-then get the bill, and send it back. It's expensive up front, and then you have to pay for a license renewal every so often-typically every year, and that's $500 or so I think, billed to the dealer.
That is interesting because the smell of gas is present. Wonder if it is some of the fuel vapors being pushed into the crankcase venting. Could be what they mean by evaporating during the warmup. Definitely a gas smell.
As I stated in the other thread, my mechanic said they had no diagnostic equipment for this machine and parts swapping was the only option. They suspected it could be something in the ECU but Kubota would not approve swapping another in because it was very expensive and would not change anything they were told. I think it is a total crapshoot if you get a good one of these Subaru engines.
What do you think of the Ranger 1000 with the deluxe package? Sounds like it would be much easier to work out problems like this with the software you explained. I know the one I looked at in 2020 had a nice gas pedal feed and wasn't jerky like the sidekick.
 

truckfixer

Member

Equipment
rtv-xg850sl
May 2, 2023
38
8
8
Cusick WA
spark arrestor plugged?

Pull the belt and measure it's width? And for hourglassing? Hourglassing is very common on CVT's, due to folks using them for tractors and such. Machine sits still, clutch engages and puts a bunch of friction and heat in one spot, narrows the belt in that ONE spot. When this happens, on some machines it causes the crankshaft speed to flucuate, which causes (A) the engine to run weird and (B) throws a check engine light, a misfire code, and occasionally might go into limp mode. This is done because they have a catalyst built into the muffler, so the ecu is programmed such that when it 'sees' a 'misfire' (whether it really is or not), it doesn't keep pouring raw fuel into the catalyst, which burns it up. It will actually melt the cat. On this note, on all cvt equipped machines, low gear is your primary gear when you are below about 20mph. High is just your road gear. It's nothing like a truck where you're in high all the time until you need more pulling power; it's actually opposite-low being your primary gear. Using low will drastically reduce the loads placed on the drive belt.

Not saying that the belt IS your issue, but I did want to point that out for those that may not have known.

and, you can't go by smell because newer engines are totally different. Smell means nothing anymore. Don't rely on it, at all. The catalyst in the muffler changes that smell, as do a lot of other things. And yes almost everything has a catalyst inside the muffler nowdays. Mowers too in some cases. In the old days you could kind of gauge how the mixture was by the smell, but that's not the case with ANY EFI stuff anymore. I don't care how 'good' you think you are, I can almost guarantee you that an EFI engine that "smells" right to us old timers, is rich or has retarded timing-or both. Just as an example, my old car-carbureted 302 ford, it smells normal, and it runs normal. To me. On my EFI car, also a 302, but has cats (factory EFI), if I go in and adjust the mixture via computer to smell like the old one? It's lambda is around .80. 1.00 is stoich. .80 is rich. Also on EFI stuff, your ignition timing can be whatever the ecu wants it to be. At idle, it wouldn't surprise me to see it at 40 degrees or so, and it might be different for each cylinder (polaris is definitely different for each cyl). LH cyl might be at 10 deg, RH might be 4 deg, at idle, simultaneously. My car? Factory EFI, at idle, varies between 30 and 45 degrees. It uses timing to maintain the engine idle speed. At cruise it is sometimes 45-50 deg.

This is where Kubota doesn't have a lot of good data log software (or didn't when I was with the kubota dealer) to actually watch what's going on in the EFI system. On our polaris stuff we can see everything in real time via digital wrench; and from there "usually" we can see what the issue is. If MAP is real high, we know that the valve clearance may be off, or the throttle blade is open too far, or perhaps there is an intake tract leak. Majority of the time it's an intake leak. Similar on Yamaha stuff, with their software you can see what's going on. Kawasaki's stuff was kind of poor at the time but I understand they finally fixed that, but does the dealer have access to it? That is the question. Kubota didn't have a lot decent software to watch the sidekick's efi at the time, which I asked about and didn't get much answer to. I hope they've addressed that, because if you work on EFI stuff, you NEED the data to diagnose. If you don't have that or access to it, you're just guessing-and some techs, that's all they can do is guess because they don't have access to the data.

The OEM EFI software viewing stuff is EXPENSIVE, and some dealers don't buy it. It's auto-shipped in a lot of cases, but the dealer gets billed for it (usually), and sometimes (like in the case of the kubota dealer I was at--that also had yamaha and kawasaki), they'd get it-then get the bill, and send it back. It's expensive up front, and then you have to pay for a license renewal every so often-typically every year, and that's $500 or so I think, billed to the dealer.
belt looks fine it's just really squeaky and doesn't really engage until 2500 rpm which wouldn't make the utv pop and sputter, spark arrester is clean
 

truckfixer

Member

Equipment
rtv-xg850sl
May 2, 2023
38
8
8
Cusick WA
That is interesting because the smell of gas is present. Wonder if it is some of the fuel vapors being pushed into the crankcase venting. Could be what they mean by evaporating during the warmup. Definitely a gas smell.
As I stated in the other thread, my mechanic said they had no diagnostic equipment for this machine and parts swapping was the only option. They suspected it could be something in the ECU but Kubota would not approve swapping another in because it was very expensive and would not change anything they were told. I think it is a total crapshoot if you get a good one of these Subaru engines.
What do you think of the Ranger 1000 with the deluxe package? Sounds like it would be much easier to work out problems like this with the software you explained. I know the one I looked at in 2020 had a nice gas pedal feed and wasn't jerky like the sidekick.
thing is the only time it ran well is when the exhaust reeked of raw fuel, it almost doesn't have a smell at all anymore which is most definitely related, I may give it a full tear down this summer since kubota told me in the nicest possible way to go kick rocks
 
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mikester

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M59 TLB
Oct 21, 2017
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www.divergentstuff.ca
I sense a yamaha snowmobile engine in my future if I start seeing issues...I'm over 100 hours so far and none of these issues yet. I'm guessing my belt's wearing because I don't get whip lash anymore when the clutch engages with the toggle switch throttle...or I'm getting better at controlling the throttle.
 
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truckfixer

Member

Equipment
rtv-xg850sl
May 2, 2023
38
8
8
Cusick WA
I sense a yamaha snowmobile engine in my future if I start seeing issues...I'm over 100 hours so far and none of these issues yet. I'm guessing my belt's wearing because I don't get whip lash anymore when the clutch engages with the toggle switch throttle...or I'm getting better at controlling the throttle.
hope to God it's the latter. mine started to not jump during this issue and I know for a fact it's only because the engine doesn't have the power or rpm to make it engage as fast as before